Submarine Tour to Titanic Missing

[Locke]

OceanGate's website does not appear to be up anymore...

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

OceanGate's website does not appear to be up anymore...

Was it built out of carbon-fiber?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Was it built out of carbon-fiber?

It was probably made out of RV plumbing and hope.

[Mathgod]

Multiple things can be true at the same time. While this is a tragedy, and we should have some sympathy toward the 5 lives that were cut short, and we should have some compassion for the family members & friends of those who died... we should also realize that emotional currency is not an infinite resource; most of us living in the wealthiest parts of the world give nothing more than a passing thought toward other events which have caused orders of magnitude more death and human suffering than one incredibly reckless, ill-advised trip to the bottom of the Atlantic in an inadequate vessel.

How many people paid more attention to this than the Ukrainian soldiers who either died or got seriously injured that same day protecting their country from a psychopathic invasion? Probably a lot.

How many people paid more attention to this than the migrant workers who either died, got seriously injured, or were forced to endure horrific working conditions, as they prepared Qatar for the 2022 World Cup? I'm guessing probably a lot.

How many people paid more attention to this than the 25,000 people worldwide who died of hunger on that same day? I'm guessing probably a lot.

How many people paid more attention to this than the 25,000+ people worldwide who died of cancer on that same day? I'm guessing probably a lot.

Point is, I do think that a lot of people have priorities that are... how shall we say it... unwise. They lack perspective, and spend their emotional currency in rather ignorant ways. They'll douse Damar Hamlin or the Humboldt crash victims with tens of millions of dollars in donations, then turn around and vote for politicians that set the lowest possible tax rates, weakest worker, consumer, and environmental protections, and most isolationist foreign policies... because to them, hey, no one deserves any empathy or compassion except for the victims of carefully selected events.

But anyways, I digress...

Then there's the question of how wealthy these 5 people were and how some people are responding to it. Here's my take on the whole wealth component of this story:

Is being rich, in & of itself, a reprehensible trait? No.

Are there people out there who see being rich as a reprehensible trait, and celebrate any time a rich person dies? Yes. Am I one of these people? No.

Can affluence potentially be a corrupting influence on a person's worldview and cause the person to develop antisocial tendencies? Yes. Does it have that effect on every person who becomes rich? No. Does it have that effect on many rich, influential people, and is therefore causing problems for society? Yes.

So is the wealth these people had a valid reason to celebrate their deaths? Of course not. However, their level of privilege afforded them all kinds of opportunities to analyze the type of decision they were about to make, and to gather the information they needed to make an informed decision. They chose to completely ignore these opportunities, which is what makes this situation all the more baffling.

( TLDR: ) In conclusion, my take on this situation is that a very priveldged group of people made an extremely reckless decision, and paid the ultimate price for it. I felt a small amount of sadness for a very brief time, for them and their family members, and quite honestly that's all that's warranted in this case.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

It was probably made out of RV plumbing and hope.

Designed on an etch-a-sketch.

Oh, wait. Are we talking about the website or the submersible?

[Maritime Q-Scout]

So, how many times was the trip successful?

I get the impression that the Titan did deep dives numerous times. I still wouldn't go, like I ain't getting on the Zipper at a traveling midway, but at least I can assume it's been used 2+ times before without incident.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

So, how many times was the trip successful?

I get the impression that the Titan did deep dives numerous times. I still wouldn't go, like I ain't getting on the Zipper at a traveling midway, but at least I can assume it's been used 2+ times before without incident.

Based on a few things I've read it made 3 successful dives prior.

However, another company built a similar vehicle with a Carbon Fiber Hull (albeit, more sophisticated) and their tests indicated that it would successfully complete the trip exactly once and then it was supposed to be retired as a museum piece, because you couldnt confirm the solidity of the carbon fiber hull beyond that.

Its a comedy of errors.

Now, I'm no fancy 'Big City Deep Sea Engineer' but I understand a little bit about pressure.

Usually elemental continuity is key to structural integrity.

Now imagine you've got a plexiglass porthole, glued to a titanium end-cap, bolted to a carbon fiber hull that is glued on to the other titanium end-cap.

How many points of weakness can you identify there?

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

Based on a few things I've read it made 3 successful dives prior.

However, another company built a similar vehicle with a Carbon Fiber Hull (albeit, more sophisticated) and their tests indicated that it would successfully complete the trip exactly once and then it was supposed to be retired as a museum piece, because you couldnt confirm the solidity of the carbon fiber hull beyond that.

Its a comedy of errors.

Now, I'm no fancy 'Big City Deep Sea Engineer' but I understand a little bit about pressure.

Usually elemental continuity is key to structural integrity.

Now imagine you've got a plexiglass porthole, glued to a titanium end-cap, bolted to a carbon fiber hull that is glued on to the other titanium end-cap.

How many points of weakness can you identify there?

Wow, they sure don't teach what you'd think they would teach in forestry management.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Locke

Based on a few things I've read it made 3 successful dives prior.

Three successful dives and at least as many aborted attempts due to mechanical failures.

They interviewed Jay Bloom and his son on CNN last night. They were the ones that were originally going on the trip and cancelled. The Dawoods took their seats. Apparently it was Bloom's 20 year son who started looking into the design and asked around about it. He told his dad that he was worried about it and the dad accepted the advice to cancel based on his son's research. He said another thing that gave him concern was that when they cancelled, Rush flew to Las Vegas to meet with him and to try and convince him not to cancel. He said Rush flew in on an experimental plane that he built himself. Bloom, being an aviator himself, said he realized then that Rush had a risk tolerance much higher than he did and that he would never fly on an experimental plane.

[Wormius]

I feel like ideally the company should have built a sacrificial vehicle, auto-piloted, to complete a number of descent/ascent cycles to at least gauge how many trips it could potentially made, similar to what the 2-bit YT’er was talking about in his video about operational lifetimes of different types of crafts.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I feel like ideally the company should have built a sacrificial vehicle, auto-piloted, to complete a number of descent/ascent cycles to at least gauge how many trips it could potentially made, similar to what the 2-bit YT’er was talking about in his video about operational lifetimes of different types of crafts.

There's probably a limit to the distance a game controller can remotely operate a submarine, though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Wow, they sure don't teach what you'd think they would teach in forestry management.

I did say I was not a Deep Sea Engineer, but I am an Accountant too! I might be....the most interesting man...in the World!

Originally Posted by Wormius

I feel like ideally the company should have built a sacrificial vehicle, auto-piloted, to complete a number of descent/ascent cycles to at least gauge how many trips it could potentially made, similar to what the 2-bit YT’er was talking about in his video about operational lifetimes of different types of crafts.

That would have cost money tho...they didnt get rich by writing a lot of cheques.

[Dion]

'Titan' Family Tragedy Averted Due to Son’s Warnings About Safety of Sub

Sean Bloom, 20, told his financier dad Jay Bloom there were too many red flags about the sub's ability to withstand the 'Titanic'-bound excursion, prompting the pair to back out of the trip

Las Vegas financier Jay Bloom was excited to give his Titanic-loving son Sean Bloom a “bucket list” thrill trip to the bottom of the ocean, but Sean started seeing red flags at every turn.

“The whole reason my dad didn’t go was because I told him, ‘Dude, this submarine cannot survive going that deep in the ocean,’ " Sean, 20, tells PEOPLE. “I was worried because I didn’t think the submarine could withstand that kind of pressure and it wasn’t meant to go that far.”

He and his friend Simon — who was also concerned about the safety of the Titan — began looking much harder at the actual submersible they would be in for the almost three-mile dive into the icy ocean off the coast of Newfoundland.

“That is a small submarine, with five people crammed inside,” Sean says. “It just felt super unsafe. Something was telling me this was not the move.”

Jay believes Rush's mistake was “not having some independent body review his work and take any criticism seriously.”

And he admits the prospect of seeing the Titanic with his own eyes was seductive.

“I mean, again, it's very, very exciting. Very sexy, diving to the Titanic. A great bucket list item,” he says. “But you want to do it so that you have future experiences. And just the safety — we couldn't get past the safety concerns.”

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/tit...201531030.html

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Several experts have said it likely happened in a millisecond. What are you basing your statement from?

I heard 1/20th of a second. Maybe long enough for the nervous system to twitch but surely not long enough to comprehend what was happening.

[afc wimbledon]

While I agree once the capsule failed death would be too quick to comprehend, it would the the 10 or 15 seconds of hearing the hull creak, groan and make just about to fail sounds that would be the unpleasant part, probably quite awkward for Rush as well, not often you get to apologise to a couple of billionaires for killing them through your stupidity

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

So, how many times was the trip successful?

I get the impression that the Titan did deep dives numerous times. I still wouldn't go, like I ain't getting on the Zipper at a traveling midway, but at least I can assume it's been used 2+ times before without incident.

I don't think they've said exactly, but I read it was somewhere in the 10-20 range.

[Dion]

OceanGate is 'done' and could get sued even though Titan passengers signed waivers, lawyer says

OceanGate could be sued by families of the Titan submersible passengers if investigations into its implosion find gross negligence — even though they'd signed waivers, a lawyer said.

"The enforceability of those types of liability waivers will be tested by the families of these deceased people," William Mack, a commercial litigation lawyer and partner at Davidoff Hutcher & Citron, told Insider.

He expected that their legal representatives would "make whatever arguments they can that this liability waiver will not apply if there's gross negligence."

"If they determine the deaths were as a result of some sort of negligence outside the liability waiver then we could see litigation filed pretty quickly," Mack said.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/oceangate-...104500000.html

[bluejays]

What was the timeline again here? Saturday early morning they set sail, and something happened Saturday a few hours later whereby they were in the dark for 24 hours then it cratered?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Locke

OceanGate's website does not appear to be up anymore...

I think they also took down their youtube channel which is a shame because there were a lot of great videos down there including the first 8K video of the Titanic.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I think they also took down their youtube channel which is a shame because there were a lot of great videos down there including the first 8K video of the Titanic.

Considering they just ignominiously lost their CEO its safe to say that their Corporate structure is probably in significant disarray.

I'm sure they've got a damage-control firm all over it, but whatever firm took this job on must either have some serious balls or be absolutely desperate.