2023 NHL Draft Thread

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Andrew Cristall seems to be dropping like a rock. What is the concern with him? Seems like he was a sure fire top ten pick a few months ago.

https://thehockeywriters.com/andrew-...spect-profile/

It's skating isn't it? Pretty sure it was skating.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Absolutely. No more drafting a skill player in the first round where skating is the knock on them. We need to get faster in a hurry.

If we had a fast team, then you could insert a slower player and give them time to work on their skating, but still, they usually just get to a passable level.

Agreed tired of hearing the draft pick walking up and the commentators stating if he works on his skating....

Time to add some serious speed into the lineup especially watching these playoffs we don't have the type of top end speed other teams have. Not just offensively but on tracking back that speed is going to be big in killing plays.

Playing with fast player will make guys without the speed play faster to keep up.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Agreed tired of hearing the draft pick walking up and the commentators stating if he works on his skating....

Time to add some serious speed into the lineup especially watching these playoffs we don't have the type of top end speed other teams have. Not just offensively but on tracking back that speed is going to be big in killing plays.

Playing with fast player will make guys without the speed play faster to keep up.

I don't disagree, it would be nice to have speed. Like you said, it's good to build a fast lineup and then slot in other guys if need be. Similar to the rationale for size.

But really, these playoffs have largely shown the opposite. Carolina completely shut down the lightning quickly New Jersey Devils.

Vegas beat the Oilers in 6 games.

I don't even think Dallas or Florida are particularly fast. Guys like Robertson, Pavelski, Tkachuk, Barkov and Ekblad aren't exactly what come to mind when I think of speed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't disagree, it would be nice to have speed. Like you said, it's good to build a fast lineup and then slot in other guys if need be. Similar to the rationale for size.

But really, these playoffs have largely shown the opposite. Carolina completely shut down the lightning quickly New Jersey Devils.

Vegas beat the Oilers in 6 games.

I don't even think Dallas or Florida are particularly fast. Guys like Robertson, Pavelski, Tkachuk, Barkov and Ekblad aren't exactly what come to mind when I think of speed.

Yeah I get that, but that's why I also said having that speed helps on the other side of the puck as well, back tracks and killing plays having fast guys come back and defend well and counter quickly.

You don't have to clog the NZ up to shut teams down, you can also break plays coming back quickly and turning up ice and attacking.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't disagree, it would be nice to have speed. Like you said, it's good to build a fast lineup and then slot in other guys if need be. Similar to the rationale for size.

But really, these playoffs have largely shown the opposite. Carolina completely shut down the lightning quickly New Jersey Devils.

Vegas beat the Oilers in 6 games.

I don't even think Dallas or Florida are particularly fast. Guys like Robertson, Pavelski, Tkachuk, Barkov and Ekblad aren't exactly what come to mind when I think of speed.

I also don't think speed is the be-all end-all in the conversation. Carolina isn't as fast as New Jersey, but they're still a fast team on average. Especially their top 6 forwards.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't disagree, it would be nice to have speed. Like you said, it's good to build a fast lineup and then slot in other guys if need be. Similar to the rationale for size.

But really, these playoffs have largely shown the opposite. Carolina completely shut down the lightning quickly New Jersey Devils.

Vegas beat the Oilers in 6 games.

I don't even think Dallas or Florida are particularly fast. Guys like Robertson, Pavelski, Tkachuk, Barkov and Ekblad aren't exactly what come to mind when I think of speed.

I don't think we need 12 fast forwards. We just need a 4 set of fast skaters, 3 forward and one D, which is where Kylington was a benefit.

I think we need Duehr like speed across the 4th line too. Backlund Coleman line doesn't need a burner but some more footspeed on the 2nd line would be a benefit.

[bigrangy]

Speed as a team doesn’t come from fast skaters, it comes from players that can pass and receive pucks accurately, under pressure, and in dangerous areas. The puck moves faster than anyone can skate.

The Flames while obviously lacking fast skaters also lack good passers, so as long as the guy at 16 can actually make and receive passes I’d consider that a win.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Speed as a team doesn’t come from fast skaters, it comes from players that can pass and receive pucks accurately, under pressure, and in dangerous areas. The puck moves faster than anyone can skate.

The Flames while obviously lacking fast skaters also lack good passers, so as long as the guy at 16 can actually make and receive passes I’d consider that a win.

Can't pass the puck if you were too slow to get it to begin with.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Speed as a team doesn’t come from fast skaters, it comes from players that can pass and receive pucks accurately, under pressure, and in dangerous areas. The puck moves faster than anyone can skate.

The Flames while obviously lacking fast skaters also lack good passers, so as long as the guy at 16 can actually make and receive passes I’d consider that a win.

There's still a guy at the end of the passing chain who needs to have enough speed to break around the D or at least push them back. Flames have decent outlet passers when they execute.

[really?]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

There's still a guy at the end of the passing chain who needs to have enough speed to break around the D or at least push them back. Flames have decent outlet passers when they execute.

True. This is the major problem with this group of players. Sutter instilled the plan to play fast, (feet moving, crisp passes, read the ice) and they did a decent job of establishing pace. The problem is when the other team ices players who are physically able to push this pace at a higher level, mismatches occur. The current roster has players who can manage the puck through the zones, they simply lack the individual speed to routinely expose the opponent to perilous situations. The season resulted in a volume of shots, but limited high danger chances. Hopefully the team is in the early stages of acknowledging the need for speed.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Recall when that was the buzz around Tkachuk for months too and that proved to be a big pile of plop.

High end skill, tenacity and IQ make up for a lot of the skating deficiencies. Also, things change when bodies mature as these prospects get older and stronger. Working with NCAA/CHL/NHL skating coaches goes a lot further than say anyone they might be working with as younger players as well.

Sure. You can find exceptions but this ain't Matthew Tkachuk who has elite skills in other areas and elite hockey IQ.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Speed as a team doesn’t come from fast skaters, it comes from players that can pass and receive pucks accurately, under pressure, and in dangerous areas. The puck moves faster than anyone can skate.

The Flames while obviously lacking fast skaters also lack good passers, so as long as the guy at 16 can actually make and receive passes I’d consider that a win.

it's not about being a fast skater. It's about being a good skater. People associate that with speed, but bad skaters can have OK straight ahead speed. What matters is edgework, quickness, and overall agility. When people talk about good/bad skaters, it's not just speed. It's all elements.

[Sandman]

The issue with Cristall isn’t his speed, it’s more his size/speed ratio. His skating is fine right now, but there’s plenty of room for improvement. There’s also the fact that if you compare his game to that of Zach Benson, who plays like a demon all over the ice, and is an excellent defensive forward, Cristall starts to look slower. I think Benson will fall on Draft Day, too- because of size.

Fact is, as unpopular as it is, size is still coveted by scouts and GM’s, and rightfully so. Until the NHL does away with contact, size will always be an asset. To prospects of this age, size makes it easier to transition into the NHL too. Now of course, you don’t want to lose out on skill and speed, but watch Benson and Cristall drop, and Wood rise come Draft Day.

EDIT: When I say “size”, I don’t necessarily mean guys who a monsters, like 6’3” and bigger, but I think 6’0” or bigger.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

it's not about being a fast skater. It's about being a good skater. People associate that with speed, but bad skaters can have OK straight ahead speed. What matters is edgework, quickness, and overall agility. When people talk about good/bad skaters, it's not just speed. It's all elements.

Exactly right, Jiri.

[Macho0978]

Flames need more speed, but they aren't the slowest team. They did miss a high-end speed player with skill on their top 2 lines and their PP suffered because of it.

Defense and bottom end forwards had plenty of speed guys.

If Lindholm stays and you build a first line with him and Huberdeau, a top end speed guy would complement those 2 more than Toffoli did. Toffoli had a great year too but that line together was not good, and I personally never liked it even in the pre-season when projecting lines. Need players that complement each other.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Sandman

The issue with Cristall isn’t his speed, it’s more his size/speed ratio. His skating is fine right now, but there’s plenty of room for improvement. There’s also the fact that if you compare his game to that of Zach Benson, who plays like a demon all over the ice, and is an excellent defensive forward, Cristall starts to look slower. I think Benson will fall on Draft Day, too- because of size.

Fact is, as unpopular as it is, size is still coveted by scouts and GM’s, and rightfully so. Until the NHL does away with contact, size will always be an asset. To prospects of this age, size makes it easier to transition into the NHL too. Now of course, you don’t want to lose out on skill and speed, but watch Benson and Cristall drop, and Wood rise come Draft Day.

EDIT: When I say “size”, I don’t necessarily mean guys who a monsters, like 6’3” and bigger, but I think 6’0” or bigger.

Part of being a successful NHLer is being able to create separation.
Players can do that several ways:
- By being a good skater and being able to escape
- By being big and being able to physically distance yourself
- By being highly skilled and being able to create space through skilled plays

I would say most successful NHLers have at least 2 of those 3 elements. If you are small and slow but highly skilled, you are probably going to fail (with very few exceptions). If you are just big, but a bad skater and not skilled, you are going to fail.

Players have to be able to create that separation to succeed in the faster and bigger NHL game.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sandman

The issue with Cristall isn’t his speed, it’s more his size/speed ratio. His skating is fine right now, but there’s plenty of room for improvement. There’s also the fact that if you compare his game to that of Zach Benson, who plays like a demon all over the ice, and is an excellent defensive forward, Cristall starts to look slower. I think Benson will fall on Draft Day, too- because of size.

Fact is, as unpopular as it is, size is still coveted by scouts and GM’s, and rightfully so. Until the NHL does away with contact, size will always be an asset. To prospects of this age, size makes it easier to transition into the NHL too. Now of course, you don’t want to lose out on skill and speed, but watch Benson and Cristall drop, and Wood rise come Draft Day.

EDIT: When I say “size”, I don’t necessarily mean guys who a monsters, like 6’3” and bigger, but I think 6’0” or bigger.

Size also generally gives a player longer reach which helps pretty much everywhere. A bigger player has a larger radius around them where they can receive passes or defend from. Then like you said, the added size helps on the physical side of the game.

Smaller players shouldn't be overlooked if they have other qualities that make up the difference, but size is still a helpful attribute.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Part of being a successful NHLer is being able to create separation.
Players can do that several ways:
- By being a good skater and being able to escape
- By being big and being able to physically distance yourself
- By being highly skilled and being able to create space through skilled plays

I would say most successful NHLers have at least 2 of those 3 elements. If you are small and slow but highly skilled, you are probably going to fail (with very few exceptions). If you are just big, but a bad skater and not skilled, you are going to fail.

Players have to be able to create that separation to succeed in the faster and bigger NHL game.

I 100 % agree with this but Skill with 1 of being fast or big is the key.

You can have a pretty good career as a role player being big and fast with low skill but at the end of the day skill is required. Have guys with elite level size or elite level skating with skill creates a great team.

Kadri, Huberdeau, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Toffoli could be made a case that they are neither elite level skaters or big. Need to implement 1 of these 2 intangibles into our top 2 lines. Speed seems to be missing more than the size out of that group.

I think this is why I wanted Dube with Lindholm and Huberdeau all year and was so frustrated it never happened.

Also think the lack of speed/size combinations made it tough on Sutter to make quality lines.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Part of being a successful NHLer is being able to create separation.
Players can do that several ways:
- By being a good skater and being able to escape
- By being big and being able to physically distance yourself
- By being highly skilled and being able to create space through skilled plays

I would say most successful NHLers have at least 2 of those 3 elements. If you are small and slow but highly skilled, you are probably going to fail (with very few exceptions). If you are just big, but a bad skater and not skilled, you are going to fail.

Players have to be able to create that separation to succeed in the faster and bigger NHL game.

Excellent post, and I agree, except “team size” is a factor too, especially in the playoffs. If you have a few undersized players, better surround them with some beef that can play, or they’ll be pushed out. If you have more than a few undersized players, they had better be tough and/or mean to play against. See: Tampa Bay Lightning.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Excellent post, and I agree, except “team size” is a factor too, especially in the playoffs. If you have a few undersized players, better surround them with some beef that can play, or they’ll be pushed out. If you have more than a few undersized players, they had better be tough and/or mean to play against. See: Tampa Bay Lightning.

But the with skill part is still key. You can have big, you can have fast which the Flames have but big with skill or eltite speed with skill is missing.

Dube, Coleman and Backlund can all fly, but we need someone who can do so damage with that speed.

Hanifin, Weegar also can skate very well but also just don't do any damage when they create.

Elite level skating vs good skating is also missing. Kylington was really missed as someone that is an elite level skater.

Players that complement each other too. Leon and McDavid, Mackinnon and Ranatnen, Matthews and Marner. 1 guy is big and skilled 1 is fast and skilled. These might be the 3 best duos in the league and all 3 seem to have 1 speed guy and 1 size guy. Leafs duo probably the least effective as Matthews is big but not a tank like the other 2.