2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

Coleman’s not a bargain but he’s not a bad contract either. He’s a guy who’s paid what he rates in terms of the league.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman’s not a bargain but he’s not a bad contract either. He’s a guy who’s paid what he rates in terms of the league.

For the first 2 seasons of his contract he performed for what he was paid for

However it’s the next 4 years that’s the bigger issue . For the contract (most likely) the Flames needed him to perform at a better rate for the first 3 years (when it was suppose to be our window) and accept his later contract years will get worst

I don’t mind Coleman . He’s solid . He takes dumb penalties at times , but gets hot occasionally and very seldom is invisible or the problem

However , he is the type of player that championship teams have at a discount and let someone else pay for their post apex years at a premium / market rate

I would love as many Coleman’s as you would give me at 2.5 million . At his contract , he just doesn’t bring enough for a team in cap hell and i predict the next 4 years looks worse then the first 2

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman’s not a bargain but he’s not a bad contract either. He’s a guy who’s paid what he rates in terms of the league.

Ya but you're completely missing the point by trying to isolate Coleman at this current moment in time. The point is you have big money and term tied up in Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Coleman, Markstrom. That's a weak core group and an old core group. So yay, Coleman right now is maybe earning his 5 million. The other 4 guys are not and they're all getting older and will all likely start to look worse and worse, most likely including Coleman.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Ya but you're completely missing the point by trying to isolate Coleman at this current moment in time. The point is you have big money and term tied up in Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Coleman, Markstrom. That's a weak core group and an old core group. So yay, Coleman right now is maybe earning his 5 million. The other 4 guys are not and they're all getting older and will all likely start to look worse and worse, most likely including Coleman.

All UFA contracts tend to work out this way. This isn’t some new revelation.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All UFA contracts tend to work out this way. This isn’t some new revelation.

So you're in agreement that trying to sign guys to retirement contracts in their 30s probably isn't a good way to build a team? Because the conversation started around my opinion that the Flames are better off trading Lindholm and getting more flexibility and youth than they are adding another retirement contract like the ones I've already listed. Huberdeau, Kadri, Weegar, Markstrom, Coleman, Lindholm, is basically half the cap on 6 retirement contracts and that's a very weak core.

[Vinny01]

The Flames had the luxury of paying middle 6 wingers $5M per when their highest paid players made $7M. Right now they have paid only 1 player franchise player money but if they end up extending Lindholm or acquiring another player who they need to give $9M+ to they will find it harder and harder to afford luxuries like Coleman at $4.9M.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Coleman’s not a bargain but he’s not a bad contract either. He’s a guy who’s paid what he rates in terms of the league.

My issue with the contract is that it's not the kind of contract you see on cup winning teams. Teams like the Lightning cut bait with players like Colemen when they get to free agency because they sink their money into their skill players that win you games. Coleman type of contracts exist because there are enough mediocre teams desperate enough to plug depth player gaps through free agency. The Coleman contract may not be bad because he is good at his 3rd line role but it's poor value for a 3rd line winger.

[traptor]

The flames already have 5 guys for 3+ more season making big money well into their late 30s.

How many more of these contracts can the flames afford?
In my mind you need layered approach of different types of contracts. You have rfa-rfa, rfa-ufa and ufa-ufa.

Feels like we're full on ufa-ufa contracts.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All UFA contracts tend to work out this way. This isn’t some new revelation.

All?

I would prefer contracts like Max Domi's (1 year at 3 mill) or Mason Marchment (4 years at 4.5 mill) or Dylan Strome (5 years at 5.0 mill).

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames had the luxury of paying middle 6 wingers $5M per when their highest paid players made $7M. Right now they have paid only 1 player franchise player money but if they end up extending Lindholm or acquiring another player who they need to give $9M+ to they will find it harder and harder to afford luxuries like Coleman at $4.9M.

That "luxury" cost us signing Tkachuk to an 8 year deal, 3 years ago, because the Flames wanted to keep Frolik, who would be Coleman's twin brother, more or less.

Good teams move on from these types of players. Only bad teams have the luxury of paying guys like Coleman/Frolik $5MM per season, and end up being bubble type teams.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

All?

I would prefer contracts like Max Domi's (1 year at 3 mill) or Mason Marchment (4 years at 4.5 mill) or Dylan Strome (5 years at 5.0 mill).

I believe he was talking about your more "elite" players.

But I'm not sure I'd want Strome at one year and $5MM, much less 5 years. Sure he has some offensive skill, but he's not a particularly good player.

[1qqaaz]

Coleman is more elite than those guys?

Strome had 65 points this year and 48 points in 69 games last year. Domi had 56 points this year and has 10 points in 10 playoff games. Mason Marchment was 26, and coming off a season with 47 points in 54 games. He's 6'4.

Coleman has averaged about 35 points in his 2 seasons with the Flames. I get he has the intangibles and some good metrics, but it's a pretty big stretch to call him "elite" over those guys.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Coleman is more elite than those guys?

Strome had 65 points this year and 48 points in 69 games last year. Domi had 56 points this year and has 10 points in 10 playoff games. Mason Marchment was 26, and coming off a season with 47 points in 54 games. He's 6'4.

Coleman has averaged about 35 points in his 2 seasons with the Flames. I get he has the intangibles and some good metrics, but it's a pretty big stretch to call him "elite" over those guys.

Do those players want to sign with Calgary? I don't think Calgary will ever get a bargain on a UFA contract.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Strome is so slow. He would drive Flames fans nuts.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Strome is so slow. He would drive Flames fans nuts.

Is he any slower than previous and current fan favorites like Monahan, Tkachuk, or Toffoli?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Is he any slower than previous and current fan favorites like Monahan, Tkachuk, or Toffoli?

I would say his skating is worse than all 3.
hard to evaluate player to player though.

He's an adequate offensive player who doesn't do much if he's not producing. And he needs to play with other, better players to do that.

He's basically the opposite of a guy like Coleman.
Both have value but hard to compare apples to apples.

Overall though I would rather have Coleman.

[1qqaaz]

The Flames would still have had good defensive metrics without Coleman.

The 2nd PP unit has really been a struggle. I'd argue the Flames could use Strome over Coleman, especially since Strome is improving and Coleman is due to regress.

But it's comparing apples to oranges.

[Monahammer]

Coleman's been a bust on his contract. He was brought in for playoff tenacity, in my books. He was meh in the playoffs when we did get there. His production otherwise has very little impact on team success.

Waste of money for our roster to tote him around. And I like the player.

[Sandman]

Strome is the slowest player in the league, or at least right near the bottom.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Disagree.

Hanifin is younger, much cheaper, and plays a more important position. If you were to rate each as a hockey player on their own merits, I think most people would score Nylander a little higher. But trade value? I think that tilts to Hanifin.

Also, the Flames don't need more wingers. We need a C, if there is any consideration to moving Lindholm or Backlund.

If we move on from Lindholm because he won't resign and we are able to acquire Nylander I would have Nylander play at center.

If Backlund won't resign for a reasonable salary and you trade him than I would be looking at playing Dube at center.

Center ice depth would be

Nylander
Kadri
Dube

Maybe with the right wingers Ruzicka can be that third line center but I think that he will get traded this summer.