2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

We still have some players about to promote that should help keep us competitive over the next four to five years, then we're at the point where we should be able to take a run at restocking the system by selling off the vets. I don't see that time as now because we'd just be wasting Pelletier, Zary, Coronato, Wolf, Poirier and possibly the two Russian defensemen. The gap that exists in the system means we need to ride it out.

What vets are you trading in 4-5 years? I love how you think a 28 year old Lindholm making under $5 million is bringing back nothing yet somehow a 37 year old Kadri, 34 year old Huberdeau, 39 year old Backlund, 36 year old Coleman, 34 year old Weegar, 38 year old Markstrom, this is going to start the rebuild lol.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

What vets are you trading in 4-5 years? I love how you think a 28 year old Lindholm making under $5 million is bringing back nothing yet somehow a 37 year old Kadri, 34 year old Huberdeau, 39 year old Backlund, 36 year old Coleman, 34 year old Weegar, 38 year old Markstrom, this is going to start the rebuild lol.

The Flames version of a rebuild is getting drug into it. Which they will be with those contracts. I also think some people will be disappointed in the return Lindholm brings back if he does get traded

[Hackey]

The return probably isn't anything special I just don't see the logic in saying hey we have all these bad contracts so maybe in 5 years we can get close to being out from under them but hey let's add another 8 year contract to the mix that's going to give us even less flexibility. Fortunately I think the odds of Lindholm wanting to actually stay for 8 more years is very unlikely.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Honestly, the perfect trading partner imo would be Detroit. They have an extra 1st (NYI), and 3 2nd round picks (DET, STL, VAN), all picks that are from non playoff teams. They also have Boston's 2024 1st *top 10 protected*. Additionally, they have some very enticing prospects in their system. I'll exclude Edvinsson because he is likely untouchable.

Package Lindholm and Hanifin to them and you could get a very good future-based haul.

I'd do:

Lindholm
Hanifin

for

2023 1st (NYI)
*Cond. 2024 1st/ 2024 2nd + 2025 2nd* - Detroit makes playoffs, '24 1st (DET), if they don't, '24 2nd (DET)+ '25 2nd (DET). Detroit also gets option of getting the earlier 1st round pick between their own pick and Boston's, unless they trade one of the 1st round picks away. If they trade one of the picks in a separate deal, Calgary walks away with the other 1st.
Berggren --> RW, would fit fight in the middle 6
James --> 40th OA 2022 pick, born in Calgary. Decent freshman year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kermitology

I never said trade him for draft picks. I said trade him for 22-26 year old players.

Oh, well that's different!

You're not getting multiple established players or players on the cusp for one year of Elias Lindholm. If that is your expectation you're going to be sorely disappointed. You might get someone to bite on draft picks, but to give up even one quality player for Lindholm without some certainty of what he's doing is unlikely. I also don't see how it moves the Flames forward in anyway. Using the Flames roster as an example, you'd be talking players like Ruzicka (23), Dube (24), Hanifin (26), Andersson (26), Gilbert (26), and Vladar (25).

Originally Posted by Hackey

What vets are you trading in 4-5 years? I love how you think a 28 year old Lindholm making under $5 million is bringing back nothing yet somehow a 37 year old Kadri, 34 year old Huberdeau, 39 year old Backlund, 36 year old Coleman, 34 year old Weegar, 38 year old Markstrom, this is going to start the rebuild lol.

You're going to get diminishing returns on those older players, no doubt. But now is not the time to start selling off assets and start a rebuild. Not unless you want to experience something worse than the young guns era. Treliving handcuffed us with his wheeling and dealing and we have to wait for those deals to be wash clean from the books to get serious about this. Worse, the last two draft classes are going to leave a huge hole in the system.

It's no secret that the majority of NHL players come from the 1st and 2nd round. You can extend that to the first 100 picks of any draft. That is where you will make hay and how you rebuild. Four or five draft classes in a row of as many picks you can get in the first 100 players, then another four or five years before you start to see benefit. The Flames are still bleeding picks in that band thanks to Treliving's asset management. We won't be out of those woods until the 2026 draft. so yeah, start dumping players right now when we have nothing to back fill them with, for marginal returns, and we can watch our team suffer and make other teams who own our best picks happy as they gain benefit from our misery.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Honestly, the perfect trading partner imo would be Detroit. They have an extra 1st (NYI), and 3 2nd round picks (DET, STL, VAN), all picks that are from non playoff teams. They also have Boston's 2024 1st *top 10 protected*. Additionally, they have some very enticing prospects in their system. I'll exclude Edvinsson because he is likely untouchable.

Package Lindholm and Hanifin to them and you could get a very good future-based haul.

I'd do:

Lindholm
Hanifin

for

2023 1st (NYI)
*Cond. 2024 1st/ 2024 2nd + 2025 2nd* - Detroit makes playoffs, '24 1st (DET), if they don't, '24 2nd (DET)+ '25 2nd (DET). Detroit also gets option of getting the earlier 1st round pick between their own pick and Boston's, unless they trade one of the 1st round picks away. If they trade one of the picks in a separate deal, Calgary walks away with the other 1st.
Berggren --> RW, would fit fight in the middle 6
James --> 40th OA 2022 pick, born in Calgary. Decent freshman year.

I don’t know the prospects you added there but that seems really underwhelming and this will not be the type of trade I think the flames pursue if they move those guys. That is trading away our number 1 C and 2-3D for straight futures. The Flames want to compete next year so I see them potentially looking for more of a hockey trade where they get younger and cheaper players that have upside and can step into the lineup next year. I could be wrong but I would be shocked to see this kind of deal unless other futures are being flipped to add a top forward.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t know the prospects you added there but that seems really underwhelming and this will not be the type of trade I think the flames pursue if they move those guys. That is trading away our number 1 C and 2-3D for straight futures. The Flames want to compete next year so I see them potentially looking for more of a hockey trade where they get younger and cheaper players that have upside and can step into the lineup next year. I could be wrong but I would be shocked to see this kind of deal unless other futures are being flipped to add a top forward.

The idea for me would be either using one of those 1sts, preferably the 2024 one, to pursue Dubois if he signs a long term deal here. I think his potential has only scratched the surface in Winnipeg. Would love to see him with Huberdeau.

If not him, I would like for us to grab ROR on a 2-3 deal if we overpaid. Some people may not like it, but Backlund isn't getting any younger, so rolling with Kadri/Backlund/ROR for a couple of seasons wouldn't be the worst until we found a more younger, suitable replacement at C.

Or, look for a 1 year deal 3rd line center that can PK, hit, play a mean 2-way deal. The biggest part of the deal was grabbing cap space to utilize it on stop gaps while we let the youngsters get more time.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

The idea for me would be either using one of those 1sts, preferably the 2024 one, to pursue Dubois if he signs a long term deal here. I think his potential has only scratched the surface in Winnipeg. Would love to see him with Huberdeau.

If not him, I would like for us to grab ROR on a 2-3 deal if we overpaid. Some people may not like it, but Backlund isn't getting any younger, so rolling with Kadri/Backlund/ROR for a couple of seasons wouldn't be the worst until we found a more younger, suitable replacement at C.

Or, look for a 1 year deal 3rd line center that can PK, hit, play a mean 2-way deal. The biggest part of the deal was grabbing cap space to utilize it on stop gaps while we let the youngsters get more time.

I feel like if traded separately the Flames could get a guaranteed 1st from the 23 draft for both Lindholm and Hanifin. Lucic returned the 13th pick, Martin Jones (flipped for a 1st in 16 + Kuraly)+Colin Miller at the draft in 2015 when he only had a year left on his deal. The 2015 draft had as much hype as the 2023 in terms of quality in the first half of the first round. I feel like Lindholm with his cap hit this year, age, versatility to play in all situations would have his value sky high if he was dealt at the draft.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

The Flames want to compete next year so I see them potentially looking for more of a hockey trade where they get younger and cheaper players that have upside and can step into the lineup next year.

Flames need to get younger, better and cheaper.

Sign me up!!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Flames need to get younger, better and cheaper.

Sign me up!!

Not necessarily better but is it not what they did to acquire Lindholm in the 1st place? They traded Hamilton, Ferland and Fox to get Lindholm and Hanifin who were younger and cheaper if they wanted to bridge either player instead of getting the 6 year deals they signed. This was a time their pro scouting nailed it getting 2 players who had not lived up to their pre draft hype and flourished with a change of scenery

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I feel like if traded separately the Flames could get a guaranteed 1st from the 23 draft for both Lindholm and Hanifin. Lucic returned the 13th pick, Martin Jones (flipped for a 1st in 16 + Kuraly)+Colin Miller at the draft in 2015 when he only had a year left on his deal. The 2015 draft had as much hype as the 2023 in terms of quality in the first half of the first round. I feel like Lindholm with his cap hit this year, age, versatility to play in all situations would have his value sky high if he was dealt at the draft.

Agreed, but I doubt anyone is going to make a trade before this draft in that range.

Most of the teams in that range are not looking for a quick fix, and are unlikely to move the 2023 pick.

I think Calgary would be looking at 2024 picks or perhaps late 2023 picks.

And as much as I'd like Lindholm and Hanifin moved for picks/prospects, I expect Calgary will go another route.

And Lindholm to receive real value would need to agree to a deal, so who knows how agreeable he'd be with that, and how agreeable a team would be to give him an 8-year deal at big bucks.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I feel like if traded separately the Flames could get a guaranteed 1st from the 23 draft for both Lindholm and Hanifin. Lucic returned the 13th pick, Martin Jones (flipped for a 1st in 16 + Kuraly)+Colin Miller at the draft in 2015 when he only had a year left on his deal. The 2015 draft had as much hype as the 2023 in terms of quality in the first half of the first round. I feel like Lindholm with his cap hit this year, age, versatility to play in all situations would have his value sky high if he was dealt at the draft.

I think we can agree that a lot has changed in terms of cap becoming the king of everything. I think if you want a maximized deal, you are asking Calgary to have to take on a cap dump. Detroit doesn't really have any cap dumps, and if they did, it doesn't make sense for a team that is retooling to take on a camp dump.

Cap space is king. Not only would we free up almost 10m in space, we'd also be getting a pick in a very deep draft. 18th OA is likely a top 10 pick in other drafts, that's how deep the draft is. Detroit isn't going to trade that pick short of someone like Lindholm, without having to offer a ton back in return. In fact, they would probably feel 18th OA is too much for someone they might not evenbe able to re-sign. They'd try to grab him with 2 2nds and a better prospect.

I agree that this kind of deal won't happen, but it should.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think we can agree that a lot has changed in terms of cap becoming the king of everything. I think if you want a maximized deal, you are asking Calgary to have to take on a cap dump. Detroit doesn't really have any cap dumps, and if they did, it doesn't make sense for a team that is retooling to take on a camp dump.

Cap space is king. Not only would we free up almost 10m in space, we'd also be getting a pick in a very deep draft. 18th OA is likely a top 10 pick in other drafts, that's how deep the draft is. Detroit isn't going to trade that pick short of someone like Lindholm, without having to offer a ton back in return. In fact, they would probably feel 18th OA is too much for someone they might not evenbe able to re-sign. They'd try to grab him with 2 2nds and a better prospect.

I agree that this kind of deal won't happen, but it should.

Lindholm gets a 1st + if they trade him at the deadline. I think he gets more if he is traded at the draft with a full year ahead. I do feel like the Flames will gauge his interest on an extension and I could see the acquiring team talking to the agent about his willingness to extend with the new team before the deal is made. Maybe the prospects you listed are awesome but I am not familiar.

Teams trade 1sts for 20 game rentals all the time but the Wings will be hesitant to trade the 18th pick for a sub $5M, sub 30 year old all situations forward? They would easily get a 1st+ if they could t sign him and had to flip him at the deadline.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I think we can agree that a lot has changed in terms of cap becoming the king of everything. I think if you want a maximized deal, you are asking Calgary to have to take on a cap dump. Detroit doesn't really have any cap dumps, and if they did, it doesn't make sense for a team that is retooling to take on a camp dump.

Cap space is king. Not only would we free up almost 10m in space, we'd also be getting a pick in a very deep draft. 18th OA is likely a top 10 pick in other drafts, that's how deep the draft is. Detroit isn't going to trade that pick short of someone like Lindholm, without having to offer a ton back in return. In fact, they would probably feel 18th OA is too much for someone they might not evenbe able to re-sign. They'd try to grab him with 2 2nds and a better prospect.

I agree that this kind of deal won't happen, but it should.

If the Flames go rebuild then they'd take back cap dumps. Clearing up 10m in space is fine but that cap space would be used on worse players then Hanifin and Lindholm. Lindholm to ROR keeps them solidly in the 16h overall pick range. If they are traded I think they look at a team that had a disappointing playoff run (ie Rangers/NJD/Toronto) and do a hockey trade.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Honestly, the perfect trading partner imo would be Detroit. They have an extra 1st (NYI), and 3 2nd round picks (DET, STL, VAN), all picks that are from non playoff teams. They also have Boston's 2024 1st *top 10 protected*. Additionally, they have some very enticing prospects in their system. I'll exclude Edvinsson because he is likely untouchable.

Package Lindholm and Hanifin to them and you could get a very good future-based haul.

I'd do:

Lindholm
Hanifin

for

2023 1st (NYI)
*Cond. 2024 1st/ 2024 2nd + 2025 2nd* - Detroit makes playoffs, '24 1st (DET), if they don't, '24 2nd (DET)+ '25 2nd (DET). Detroit also gets option of getting the earlier 1st round pick between their own pick and Boston's, unless they trade one of the 1st round picks away. If they trade one of the picks in a separate deal, Calgary walks away with the other 1st.
Berggren --> RW, would fit fight in the middle 6
James --> 40th OA 2022 pick, born in Calgary. Decent freshman year.

That is just gruesome for the Flames.

[NewFan]

If you trade Hanifin or Lindholm you must get a young talent and a high draft pick.
Trade Lindholm at least for younger Hanifin or better D prospect and 1st rounder 2024.
And trade Hanifin for a blue chip forward prospect and 1st 2024 or 2025.

Toffoli, Markstrom, Tanev, Backlund can be traded for highest draft picks with some short cap dump from other team.

[Lanny_McDonald]

This could be really interesting to watch play out. Montreal must be looking at all of these proposals and licking their chops. If all these players get dumped at the same time we're going to be giving Montreal a lottery pick in 2025. The Flames will be competitive next year, meaning Calgary won't be top 10 pick bad, but will be gutted at the trade deadline and suck the following year. Montreal will get the choice of picks between 2024 and 2025, and it's 2025 when the Flames will be really bad if all these players are dumped, and the Habs walk into a 2025 lottery pick. Would be so Calgary Flames if that pick wins the lottery and Montreal gets to pick Calgary's 1OA as a result.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This could be really interesting to watch play out. Montreal must be looking at all of these proposals and licking their chops. If all these players get dumped at the same time we're going to be giving Montreal a lottery pick in 2025. The Flames will be competitive next year, meaning Calgary won't be top 10 pick bad, but will be gutted at the trade deadline and suck the following year. Montreal will get the choice of picks between 2024 and 2025, and it's 2025 when the Flames will be really bad if all these players are dumped, and the Habs walk into a 2025 lottery pick. Would be so Calgary Flames if that pick wins the lottery and Montreal gets to pick Calgary's 1OA as a result.

That's be so peak Flames. First 1OA pick in history and we traded it away years prior for a salary dump to sign a mid 30 year old.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

That's be so peak Flames. First 1OA pick in history and we traded it away years prior for a salary dump to sign a mid 30 year old.

Absolute worst case scenario, but it would be the cherry on top of the #### sundae that Treliving left behind. Can't see it playing out like that, but wow, that would be a stake through the heart of the fans.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This could be really interesting to watch play out. Montreal must be looking at all of these proposals and licking their chops. If all these players get dumped at the same time we're going to be giving Montreal a lottery pick in 2025. The Flames will be competitive next year, meaning Calgary won't be top 10 pick bad, but will be gutted at the trade deadline and suck the following year. Montreal will get the choice of picks between 2024 and 2025, and it's 2025 when the Flames will be really bad if all these players are dumped, and the Habs walk into a 2025 lottery pick. Would be so Calgary Flames if that pick wins the lottery and Montreal gets to pick Calgary's 1OA as a result.

They are protected from that scenario. The most likely scenario if Montreal doesn't take the 24 1st is that Montreal ends up with Florida's pick in 25 if the Flames do suck. They can't actually get the 2025 1st from that trade string.

https://montrealhockeynow.com/2022/0...monahan-trade/