23/24 Flames

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

GM: Craig Conroy
Coach: Jukka Jalonen (Finnish national team coach - Olympic Gold and Bronze, World Championship Gold x3, World Junior Gold)

This would be my plan assuming that Elias Lindholm refuses to negotiate an extension prior to the season:

YEAR ONE

Trade Lindholm to Columbus for 2024 1st Round Pick and Liam Foudy
Trade Hanifin to Detroit for 2023 2nd Round Pick and 2024 1st Round Pick (Boston)
Re-Sign Matthew Phillips ($800,000) and Troy Stecher ($1,250,000)
Trade Dan Vladar for a 4th Round Pick

Draft 2023: 1x1st, 2x2nd, 1x3, 2x4, 1x6, 1x7

Huberdeau Kadri Toffoli
Mangiapane Backlund Coleman
Pelletier Dube Duehr
Foudy Ruzicka Coronato/Phillips

Very low end first line unfortunately, but every other line is fast. Jalonen is an expert at getting teams with less skill to work together and play hard.

Weegar Andersson
Kylington Tanev
Zadorov Stecher
Gilbert

I like this defensive group a lot and I would consider them top 15 pretty easily.

Markstrom (who knows what we'll get from this guy)
Wolf (20 games maybe?)

Salary Cap Space: $7.9M

TDL: Assuming that the team is out of the playoff picture, trade Backlund, Toffoli, Tanev for futures and take on bad contracts (ending that season) if necessary. Then utilize the massive amount of cap space from the season and the trades to make space for other contenders to add players.

Draft 2024: 3x1st, 1x2, 1x3, 1x4, 1x6 PLUS Trade deadline haul, which should include another 1st and some second round picks at least.

YEAR TWO

LW
Huberdeau 30
Mangiapane 28
Pelletier 23
Foudy 24

C
Kadri 33
Dube 25
Ruzicka 24
Zary 22

RW
Coronato 21
Coleman 32
Duehr 26
Phillips 26

D
Weegar 30
Andersson 27
Kylington 26 (extended)
Zadorov 28 (extended)
Poirier 21
Stecher 30

G
Markstrom 34
Wolf 23

At this point the team would have added seven 1st and 2nd round picks to the prospect pool. They would have NHL calibre players 4 deep at LW, 3 deep at C, 3 deep at RW, 5 deep on D, and a solid tandem in net.

Then they have $35M+ cap space to add through free agency or they could have used some of those draft picks to acquire some talent at center and right wing.

It would be one relatively painful season, but man would it ever clear out a lot of older players and give the Flames a much brighter future. Given how solid the D core is (assuming Kylington and Zadorov stay), I think the Flames would be back to a competitive level in 2024-25 and hopeful that some of the higher picks are ready to step in.

Hey Calgary Flames management.....someone with long term vision....take note!

[Paulie Walnuts]

If Carolina wins why would they trade youth for Backlund or Lindholm?

We can't get attached to these guys it's a business we need to keep the younger players.

I'd be fine shipping off Tanev Toffoli and Backlund in the offseason.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

Are you guys picturing a sign and trade? I must see the value of 1 year of Elias Lindholm as quite a bit lower. I don't think there is a chance to get Byfield, Johnson, or Jarvis, let alone them as part of a package.

Some of the other guys I could see, although I'd prefer Foudy + 1st to them.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, no way LA is giving up Byfield.....why would they do that....I think we sometimes overrate our own players

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

100% Agree

If you're moving Lindholm you want a young forward (ideally a center) back as part of the package.

LA: Byfield
CBJ: Sillinger or Johnson
CAR: Jarvis (or maybe Kotkaniemi who actually profiles similar to young Lindholm)
MIN: Rossi
BUF: Krebs

I actually think the best use of Kadri is to play him with two wrecking balls that drive the net and create screens. Wouldn't mind seeing Coleman, Duehr and Kadri as a line to be honest.

Sillinger type maybe but you are dreaming if you think you can get guys like Jarvis, Byfield or Johnson.
LA refused to include Byfield for Chychurn

[Bingo]

This seems like a decent place for this ...

Rangers writer talks failed rebuild. Always interesting to read other markets and the frustration in the art of team building.

It looked like the Rangers were in a spot to retool on the fly expertly a year ago.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...r-playoff-exit

Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider and Trocheck will all be over 30 years old by the end of next season. The prospect pool is well below average, and the Rangers will be short on draft picks again this summer. With little cap space with which to drastically improve the team during the offseason, what you see is what you'll probably continue to get.

[Lanny_McDonald]

That sounds awfully familiar.

[Winsor_Pilates]

NY has 2 recent #1 & #2 overall picks, Adam Fox at 25 years old and Igor Shesterkin at 27 years old.
I would argue they actually did retool when they managed to draft that high in 2019 & 2020.

It is interesting to see different teams saying the same things, but they are obviously very different than Calgary when you look at it.

[GranteedEV]

magically adding a player of Adam Fox or Chris Pronger's calibre is a once-in-a-decade event in the NHL that only happens in hotspot travel destinations. Even if the Rangers' retool is a success, it's even less repeatable than the Oilers' acquisition of McDavid and Draisaitl

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

magically adding a player of Adam Fox or Chris Pronger's calibre is a once-in-a-decade event in the NHL that only happens in hotspot travel destinations. Even if the Rangers' retool is a success, it's even less repeatable than the Oilers' acquisition of McDavid and Draisaitl

Maybe...also shows how much is involved at tanking at the right time. If Lafreniere and Kakko lived up to the hype put around top 2 picks then Rangers should have been fine in their retool, potentially even without Fox. Flip Lafreniere and Hughes and it's probably different stories in New York and New Jersey right now.

Colorado getting Mackinnon and then sucking into Makar years later and of course Edmonton with 4 1st overall picks and then 11 top 10 picks over a 13 years span aren't really repeatable ways to build a team either.

In the end you just need to draft well no matter where you are picking, and accumulate as many picks as possible by knowing when to move on from assets, and then hope for a little luck along the way too.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This seems like a decent place for this ...

Rangers writer talks failed rebuild. Always interesting to read other markets and the frustration in the art of team building.

It looked like the Rangers were in a spot to retool on the fly expertly a year ago.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...r-playoff-exit

They did get to the third round last year. I think they got a bit star struck picking up some skilled guys, but lost a bit of grit doing it. From Gallants comments after game 7 it sounded like he might not have liked the makeup of the team as much as the GM. He's a hard coach who needs players who will go all out to make things work. Rangers have a few guys who might opt for the business decision in their lineup.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

NY has 2 recent #1 & #2 overall picks, Adam Fox at 25 years old and Igor Shesterkin at 27 years old.
I would argue they actually did retool when they managed to draft that high in 2019 & 2020.

It is interesting to see different teams saying the same things, but they are obviously very different than Calgary when you look at it.

Yep this guy gets it.

Cant really compare NYR and CGY in terms of "rebuild" or "re-tool" because the models are way too far apart.

NYR drafted Kakko #2 in 2019
NYR then drafted Lafreniere #1 in 2020 and had the 19th O/A pick the same year.

In both cases those picks have turned into depth guys bordering on duds, neither has had the impact you would expect from top 2 draft picks. Dont confuse that for pity, they made the wrong choices.

They also had a Norris caliber D man in Fox fall to them because of a stupid loophole and hit on a 4th round Goalie which was a good find. Last but not least they had their franchise C in fall in their laps because of a desperation trade from Ottawa.

However like Calgary they mortgaged their future to run with a core, made it to the 3rd round last year and then lost a series this year they had no business losing (it happens) and yea, now they're stuck with minimal picks and a bare prospect cupboard...

But having a #2 and then a #1 o/a pick in back to back years.... that's on them. When we get that, then we can start comparing apples to apples and that's not saying the Flames do anything correctly, its just the reality of the comparison in my mind.

[Harry Lime]

According to Serivelli, Lindholm rescinded his trade request now that Sutter is gone. I don't know if everyone here remembers the dark years after Nieuwendyk was traded, and Calgary didn't have a true #1 center for two decades. Here are my targets to trade, and the reasoning.

Toffoli - he just had a career year and loved Sutter's system. I really like the player, but I don't think that you resign him to a big contract, so this year is the time to get value.

Vladar - Wolf is ready, and there is no easier landing spot to learn the NHL game than with Markstrom. Do not mess up Wolf's progress.

Hanafin - I really liked the exit interviews with Hanafin. I think that he has really come into his own as a player, but I also think that he is a high end second pairing who is going to get paid as a first pairing guy. With Kylington coming back, you have to be business smart about the cap.

You keep Tanev as the best defensive defenseman, you keep Lindholm as your #1 and try to sign him to a Zibinejad contract. I see a big bounce back for Mangiapane as they let him play injured all last season. You let all UFAs go and hunt for a pure defensive defenseman that can skate for the bottom pairing.

Dream scenario
- NYR are losing Kane and Tank, and a 50% off Toffoli could land a Laf?
- Would love Hanafin for a Turcotte.
- If the Jets move on from Hellybuck, Vladar as a tandem for one of the D Heinola, Chisholm or Salomonsson.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coronato (pure disher - pure center - pure shooter)
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube (tough tough line)
Turcotte - Backlund - Coleman (let Backlund teach one more player)
Pelletier - Jones - Phillips (#1 AHL in the country, no more bruisers)

Weegar - Andersson (legit top pairing)
Kylington - Tanev (don't fix what's not broke)
Zadorov - Hulking Menace

Markstrom
Wolf

To me, that sets the stage for exciting hockey, and three potential top six players of the future actually on the roster. I also didn't add Laf because I think that there's no way that happens; I'd be happy with a 1st. I think that Turcotte is achievable because the Kings are so deep on forward and weaker on defense.

[saillias]

I didn't really understand the Vladar extension because it came after the emergence of Wolf as a dominant AHL goalie, and because of those contracts not sure how they're going to get Wolf on the main club next year. Will other teams have interest in Vladar? Just seems like Tre in recent years threw out so many reactive extensions

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saillias

I didn't really understand the Vladar extension because it came after the emergence of Wolf as a dominant AHL goalie, and because of those contracts not sure how they're going to get Wolf on the main club next year. Will other teams have interest in Vladar? Just seems like Tre in recent years threw out so many reactive extensions

Vladar extended at a reasonable price makes him more tradeable, not less.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

According to Serivelli, Lindholm rescinded his trade request now that Sutter is gone. I don't know if everyone here remembers the dark years after Nieuwendyk was traded, and Calgary didn't have a true #1 center for two decades. Here are my targets to trade, and the reasoning.

Toffoli - he just had a career year and loved Sutter's system. I really like the player, but I don't think that you resign him to a big contract, so this year is the time to get value.

Vladar - Wolf is ready, and there is no easier landing spot to learn the NHL game than with Markstrom. Do not mess up Wolf's progress.

Hanafin - I really liked the exit interviews with Hanafin. I think that he has really come into his own as a player, but I also think that he is a high end second pairing who is going to get paid as a first pairing guy. With Kylington coming back, you have to be business smart about the cap.

You keep Tanev as the best defensive defenseman, you keep Lindholm as your #1 and try to sign him to a Zibinejad contract. I see a big bounce back for Mangiapane as they let him play injured all last season. You let all UFAs go and hunt for a pure defensive defenseman that can skate for the bottom pairing.

Dream scenario
- NYR are losing Kane and Tank, and a 50% off Toffoli could land a Laf?
- Would love Hanafin for a Turcotte.
- If the Jets move on from Hellybuck, Vladar as a tandem for one of the D Heinola, Chisholm or Salomonsson.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coronato (pure disher - pure center - pure shooter)
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube (tough tough line)
Turcotte - Backlund - Coleman (let Backlund teach one more player)
Pelletier - Jones - Phillips (#1 AHL in the country, no more bruisers)

Weegar - Andersson (legit top pairing)
Kylington - Tanev (don't fix what's not broke)
Zadorov - Hulking Menace

Markstrom
Wolf

To me, that sets the stage for exciting hockey, and three potential top six players of the future actually on the roster. I also didn't add Laf because I think that there's no way that happens; I'd be happy with a 1st. I think that Turcotte is achievable because the Kings are so deep on forward and weaker on defense.

I think the problem with Lindholm is going to be his salary ask after this year. I don't mind him on the roster at all as a player.

With Hanifin you mention losing a mainstay C and not replacing him. Hanifin is like a Jaybo to me - we never knew what we had until he was gone. He's young, can probably be extended at a reasonable price because he's not a big points guy.

I'm also concerned about Tanev's continued effectiveness and health and how Kylington returns - we tend to recall him with rose coloured glasses plus he's been away from the game for a year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

@Harry Lime

I like where you're going, but I think you have to see what it would take to extend Hanifin. If reasonable, you move Tanev. I think you also move Backlund. Get something for him after coming off a pretty good year because he's going to be pretty much downhill from here. Sounds cold, but this team has to stop with the sentimentality and start focusing on getting picks for players no longer in the long-term plans. Carolina is doing it right. One of the top teams in the league and they still have 11 picks in this draft. Flames need to emulate this.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

According to Serivelli, Lindholm rescinded his trade request now that Sutter is gone.

Is there a link for this?


Edit: nvm found it
https://flamesnation.ca/news/seraval...ters-departure

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Rollin22x

That's too much for Duehr!

Maloney already re-upped him on a one-way contract for the next two years at that amount.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Vladar extended at a reasonable price makes him more tradeable, not less.

weird take. which team or gm do you think wants a 2.2 mil back up who gives you .895 to .900 ish for 3 years

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by saillias

weird take. which team or gm do you think wants a 2.2 mil back up who gives you .895 to .900 ish for 3 years

I bet other teams think Vladar is a lot better than his last season. A guy with experience who you can throw in for multiple games is valuable. Florida is paying Spencer Knight double that, and his numbers are comparable (his GAA is much worse in fact). Kings are paying Cal Peterson even more and he is worse. Toronto could use him if they could get rid of Murray and that would be a net gain for them.