[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That’s just spin.

Technically Brad was still under contract, and they parted ways on that contract “mutually”.

Brad's contract didn't expire until June I believe but since he wasn't going to agree to an extension it was best for both parties to mutually agree to terminate so the Flames could move forward in finding a replacement. At the end of the day Treliving still quit the Flames.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I am beginning to think that Darryl will not return as Head Coach, and we’ll have ultimately lost Brad because of the two year term limit, but I guess we’ll see how it plays out.

Acceptable loss? If thats the price we had to pay to get Sutter out and start completely fresh I'll accept it. Celebrate it, even.

[Erick Estrada]

It's been pretty evident that Treliving leaving wasn't all because of his relationship with Sutter. It seems there are several factors at play involving the head coach, owner, and the fact that he was pretty drained after the last 14 months which have been extremely busy and probably mentally taxing times for the GM. Sounds like he just had his fill of all that went into running an Edwards owned team and wanted a fresh start in a different organization.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Royle9

If indeed there is player vs player drama as well, my god has this team deteriorated into something abysmal.

Could you imagine trying to lure UFA's into this market/team now?
The list of players this year that could speak anything in terms of other guys having to step up is quite small, that's likely Backlund/Lindholm drama and wanting to leave the team I'm thinking.

90% of the team underperformed
Rumored player vs player drama
Coach rift with half the team, including star players.
GM wanted out
Owner too involved in hockey decisions
Rookies not played, put down in media
No new arena yet

The list of negatives is growing at an alarming rate.

and that's when you have to overpay for UFA's all the while sending out promotional VHS tapes to their wives.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Brad's contract didn't expire until June I believe but since he wasn't going to agree to an extension it was best for both parties to mutually agree to terminate so the Flames could move forward in finding a replacement. At the end of the day Treliving still quit the Flames.

Yep.

But given the timing of his departure, the Flames didn't lie. They just spun what happened.

Originally Posted by Toonage

Acceptable loss? If thats the price we had to pay to get Sutter out and start completely fresh I'll accept it. Celebrate it, even.

I don't know. It's painful because Sutter is a good coach, and Treliving is a good GM - but whatever the hell happened throughout the course of the last 12 months seemingly ruined their ability to work together. I still think the ideal situation would have been Flames announce a rebuild with Sutter and Treliving on board and committed to it.

We'd seen Sutter kind of openly dump on the roster before in press conferences and stuff about how they don't have talent. He also openly praised and called Monahan "that's a captain"...so what was it that broke things down? Was he against the Tkachuk trade? The Monahan trade? What did he want? I don't understand what the breaking point between Tree and Sutter would have been.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't know. It's painful because Sutter is a good coach, and Treliving is a good GM - but whatever the hell happened throughout the course of the last 12 months seemingly ruined their ability to work together. I still think the ideal situation would have been Flames announce a rebuild with Sutter and Treliving on board and committed to it.

My guess was that Sutter didn't like the roster construction and said as much through the media, not so much to Treliving's face. Obviously just a guess on my part.

Sutter was a good coach. Treliving is a good GM. One of them seems capable of becoming better and having room to grow. The other stopped some time ago.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by nik-

Offering an extension and then saying they mutually parted ways also doesn't make sense. So there's lots of illogical bull#### to go around.

Pretty much exactly waht happened with the Astros and their GM after winning the World Series. They wouldn't offer him more than a one year deal because he and the owner didn't see eye to eye. So he left.

Kind of a similar situation. Veteran manager has the confidence of the hands on owner, and the GM gets squeezed out.

With one huge difference obviously.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Royle9

If indeed there is player vs player drama as well, my god has this team deteriorated into something abysmal.

Could you imagine trying to lure UFA's into this market/team now?
The list of players this year that could speak anything in terms of other guys having to step up is quite small, that's likely Backlund/Lindholm drama and wanting to leave the team I'm thinking.

90% of the team underperformed
Rumored player vs player drama
Coach rift with half the team, including star players.
GM wanted out
Owner too involved in hockey decisions
Rookies not played, put down in media
No new arena yet

The list of negatives is growing at an alarming rate.

It’s been discussed publicly by former players that sometimes UFA’s or high priced additions sometimes don’t sit so well with teams. Perhaps there was some friction between Huberdeau and Lindholm? Sutter said at one point Lindholm is the teams best player and he wants to play with guys he likes after splitting he and Huberdeau up.

Im speculating but, were the Flames too eager to make Huberdeau the highest paid player in franchise history and how did Lindholm see that? I don’t think Lindholm would have necessarily demanded he be that guy, the highest paid,but it may have soured him, or changed his perception, on how and who the Flames choose to reward. I’m sure he’s looking around thinking ‘okay, how do I fit in here?’ Same could be said for Backlund.

I think there was just far too much change last offseason. Gaudreau leaving started rolling a snowball down hill that couldn’t be stopped. Frankly, it probably shouldn’t be all that surprising to see the fallout of that decision turn out as it has.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I find it hard to believe that Treliving was offered the opportunity to fire Sutter and turned it down, assuming the coach/GM relationship soured this much (which does seem plausible given the team performance, player utilization and player comments).

It seems far more likely that Edwards backed Sutter which meant Treliving leaving. I suppose it is still possible that Sutter leaves, as he doesn't have much to prove, has plenty of cash and is 64 years old.

I just hope Maloney has the authority to make the call on GM and head coach. The comments from Lindholm and in particular Backlund were really telling. I get that it was garbage bag day and emotions are raw, but there is clearly something bad going on in the dressing room. If it is player/coach, they need a mandate to change the coach. Player/player? That might mean moving out players and the coach, as I think that has to be a point against Sutter as well.

I think the Kadri/Huberdeau situation can improve greatly next year, but it is going to take some honest talk about what the issues are in that room.

[Bonded]

I think Backlund is as simple as he wants to be on a team he think can win. If he rescinded his trade request then he at least bought into one season with Huberdeau and Weegar

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't know. It's painful because Sutter is a good coach, and Treliving is a good GM - but whatever the hell happened throughout the course of the last 12 months seemingly ruined their ability to work together. I still think the ideal situation would have been Flames announce a rebuild with Sutter and Treliving on board and committed to it.

We'd seen Sutter kind of openly dump on the roster before in press conferences and stuff about how they don't have talent. He also openly praised and called Monahan "that's a captain"...so what was it that broke things down? Was he against the Tkachuk trade? The Monahan trade? What did he want? I don't understand what the breaking point between Tree and Sutter would have been.

Sutter started dumping on the roster and made the dumb comments on Gaudreau's 500'th game pretty well right after he arrived so he's always been that guy. He put that first line together at the end of the bubble season which clicked immediately then picking up right where they left off the following season and Markstrom was dialed in and when you have arguably the best 5on5 line in the NHL and a top 3 goaltender it's probably going to lead to a lot of success. The fact that the bottom six players still weren't thriving and players like Lucic were getting too much ice time was easy to overlook because the first line's production was covering those warts. Then the playoffs came and that Oilers series was the beginning of everything unravelling. The Oilers getting in Markstrom's head and him losing his confidence kind of overshadows just how bad Sutter was out coached by a rookie head coach in Woodcroft who borderline disrespected him during the handshake. It seems Markstrom wasn't the only person that lost their mojo as Sutter was off very early in the season after the team got off to one of their best starts in recent history at 5-1 getting all grumpy because they were winning but not winning his way and he changed the lines and stubbornly stuck with them as the Flames lost the next 7 games. From then on it seemed like he had this him against the world mentality clashing with the media, alienating players, and even the GM in the process. If he's back next season I sure hope his attitude is a lot better as this was by far his worst work ever as Flames head coach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TOfan

It’s been discussed publicly by former players that sometimes UFA’s or high priced additions sometimes don’t sit so well with teams. Perhaps there was some friction between Huberdeau and Lindholm? Sutter said at one point Lindholm is the teams best player and he wants to play with guys he likes after splitting he and Huberdeau up.

Im speculating but, were the Flames too eager to make Huberdeau the highest paid player in franchise history and how did Lindholm see that? I don’t think Lindholm would have necessarily demanded he be that guy, the highest paid,but it may have soured him, or changed his perception, on how and who the Flames choose to reward. I’m sure he’s looking around thinking ‘okay, how do I fit in here?’ Same could be said for Backlund.

I think there was just far too much change last offseason. Gaudreau leaving started rolling a snowball down hill that couldn’t be stopped. Frankly, it probably shouldn’t be all that surprising to see the fallout of that decision turn out as it has.

If Lindholm thought Huberdeau wasn't going to be the highest paid player in Flames history he's crazy. Anything above $7M does that.

Now it's true, I think, that players look at each others' salary's a lot. But If I'm Lindy and I see the Flames hand out a big contract two years before I am up for my new one, I'm thinking about how I can leverage that, not get butthurt about it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Pretty much exactly waht happened with the Astros and their GM after winning the World Series. They wouldn't offer him more than a one year deal because he and the owner didn't see eye to eye. So he left.

Kind of a similar situation. Veteran manager has the confidence of the hands on owner, and the GM gets squeezed out.

With one huge difference obviously.

If we win the cup and Murray Edwards wants to name himself GM, head coach, and starting goalie directly after I'm ok with that.

Although we went to an Astros game a couple of weeks ago, and there were signs and announcements about their "dynasty". You've won twice separated by 5 years - that isn't a dynasty. I thought it was pretty cringy.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I find it hard to believe that Treliving was offered the opportunity to fire Sutter and turned it down, assuming the coach/GM relationship soured this much (which does seem plausible given the team performance, player utilization and player comments).

It seems far more likely that Edwards backed Sutter which meant Treliving leaving. I suppose it is still possible that Sutter leaves, as he doesn't have much to prove, has plenty of cash and is 64 years old.

..

Perhaps it's just as simple as Treliving deciding he didn't want to come back whatever the contract/coaching scenarios ownership tried to negotiate.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's been pretty evident that Treliving leaving wasn't all because of his relationship with Sutter. It seems there are several factors at play involving the head coach, owner, and the fact that he was pretty drained after the last 14 months which have been extremely busy and probably mentally taxing times for the GM. Sounds like he just had his fill of all that went into running an Edwards owned team and wanted a fresh start in a different organization.

I agree, and to push this point further, he looked at the big bets he made on Kadri and Huderdeau and thought he could get a better start somewhere else.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

That’s just spin.

Technically Brad was still under contract, and they parted ways on that contract “mutually”.

Treliving refused to re-sign and the Flames accepted his refusal.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Perhaps it's just as simple as Treliving deciding he didn't want to come back whatever the contract/coaching scenarios ownership tried to negotiate.

Sure, but I would think the contract/coaching scenarios ownership tried to negotiate would be high on the list of reasons to leave. You think he just doesn't like pocketdawgs and chinooks? (He would be an animal if that were true)

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Sure, but I would think the contract/coaching scenarios ownership tried to negotiate would be high on the list of reasons to leave. You think he just doesn't like pocketdawgs and chinooks? (He would be an animal if that were true)

There's dozens more factors in whether you want to keep doing a job or not than just your relationship with ownership and your coach.

[Mattman]

If the Raptors can fire Nick Nurse, the Flames can fire Darryl Sutter

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He’s not claiming to be. He wasn’t predicting a lot of things - but he was right with what he was saying.

The juicier bit that stumbled out this summer that is still up in the air in my eyes is from Ryan Leslie in talking with Eric Francis. They were discussing Backlund and Lindholm as players that don’t want to/won’t return and Leslie made the comment that “and that list is growing”.

There’s a problem here. It’s not just players vs coaches either, Friedman I believe in his latest 32 thoughts has said there was player vs player problems as well.

IMO player factions hindering team success is also a failure of the head coach. You'll never had 22 guys get along perfectly, and some healthy tension can be good, but a good coach will manage that tension productively. I suspect Sutter's childish antics only made things worse.

IIRC Toews and Keith did not get along at all

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's been pretty evident that Treliving leaving wasn't all because of his relationship with Sutter. It seems there are several factors at play involving the head coach, owner, and the fact that he was pretty drained after the last 14 months which have been extremely busy and probably mentally taxing times for the GM. Sounds like he just had his fill of all that went into running an Edwards owned team and wanted a fresh start in a different organization.

Your new avatar reminds me of somebody, and I couldn't put my finger on it until just now: