[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

That's fn crazy.

3 hours north we have a franchise that blows chunks but won the right lottery at the right time (with several tries) and had a mayor who wanted an arena development area more than he wanted to flip the bird to pro sports.

A dozen other teams have been horrible for parts of the decade and are still no better than the team here now.

Accepting Arizona as the floor, go ahead and name the teams that are above the flames by record in the last 3 years. Go 5 if it makes you feel better.

I am not expecting a great Flames story, but 'worst run' is emotional nonsense. The Habs have been better? Ooh those Jets. Maybe it's the Canucks you are thinking of.
Or the Coilers who are your deadbeat neighbour who won the lottery and now drums around in his bitchin camaro as though the mustard stain on his wifebeater went away.

Edit: I'd add this is also the team that had everyone wear pride jerseys. They fired (at cost) Peters because he was a dick in the past. They support a million things and the leadership has proclaimed that engaging the community is a non-negotiable. Does all that scream 'worst run'?

All of these franchises have seen more recent success than the Flames. They've gone further in the post season, they have younger, better stars than the Flames (the Flames have no young stars).

Yes, many of them have been run poorly, but they also knew when to change course. The Flames haven't been able to adapt.

I can't imagine where this franchise would be if we didn't draft Gaudreau in the 4th round.

[chedder]

Wasn't someone on here saying Johnny even reached out back to the Flames after becoming UFA (where he'd now only get 7 years) and Edwards wouldn't listen? Essentially said he wouldn't sign yesterday so we don't want him today.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

All of these franchises have seen more recent success than the Flames. They've gone further in the post season, they have younger, better stars than the Flames (the Flames have no young stars).

Yes, many of them have been run poorly, but they also knew when to change course. The Flames haven't been able to adapt.

I can't imagine where this franchise would be if we didn't draft Gaudreau in the 4th round.

The wouldn’t have made the playoffs in 2015 and who knows maybe the Flames have drafted McDavid, Eichel, or Marner?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by chedder

Wasn't someone on here saying Johnny even reached out back to the Flames after becoming UFA (where he'd now only get 7 years) and Edwards wouldn't listen? Essentially said he wouldn't sign yesterday so we don't want him today.

No. Steinberg confirmed the opposite. The Flames reached out to Gaudreau on day 1 of free agency.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Seravalli was on Barn Burner earlier today and Boomer asked him if GM's of other orgs are allowed make moves without running it through their ownership and he said no. I guess it ultimately comes down to how much an owner meddles with what happens

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by chedder

Wasn't someone on here saying Johnny even reached out back to the Flames after becoming UFA (where he'd now only get 7 years) and Edwards wouldn't listen? Essentially said he wouldn't sign yesterday so we don't want him today.

Didn't John lose the chance to sign for 8 years after his contract was up ? He was still negotiating with everyone after that because Fletcher said no.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Didn't John lose the chance to sign for 8 years after his contract was up ? He was still negotiating with everyone after that because Fletcher said no.

Yup. Only the Flames could offer 8 years and that had to be before ufa day. Poster above corrected what I thought.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wasn’t being serious. I expect the issue wasn’t Chad. It was the amount of money Edwards was prepared to spend on a backup.

Jesus, if he's meddling to that degree, I can't see this team ever becoming a contender with him as owner. You can't have an owner managing to the point of vetoing position player pickups based on his idea of what that position should cost.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DFO

I’d peg Edwards as a massive micro manager. That is pretty much the core tenet of CNRL’s management which he developed.

Edwards himself is not a micromanager at CNRL. He just expects that his way will filter down. He doesn’t personally get involved though.

He is not picking players. He is approving dollars spent. And likely the direction of the club IMO.

EDIT: I’m not sure Johnson was around when they started spending big. This was pre-Neal. And I also think there may be some unreliable narration going on.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Definitely, some factors there but lets not make it the sole narrative. They both said they left for different reasons, does that make them liars? Did Sutter push them out or did they leave on their own free will?

Couple of remarks
- PR101 says you don’t publicly single out and trash the guy no matter what you really think
- I am sure there were many factors they considered but the coach being a material negative factor is not a good thing

Whether he pushed them isn’t the issue. He probably thought he got the most out of them. If they hated him, and left of their own free will, that doesn’t look good on him either

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Edwards himself is not a micromanager at CNRL. He just expects that his way will filter down. He doesn’t personally get involved though.

He is not picking players. He is approving dollars spent. And likely the direction of the club IMO.

Would you call having to approve virtually every deal, even if it’s a section or pretty much actually anything, micromanaging? I would. They’re worse than Sinopec and having to go to Beijing to do a deal on one section. Edwards micromanages, borderline to the extreme.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Jesus, if he's meddling to that degree, I can't see this team ever becoming a contender with him as owner. You can't have an owner managing to the point of vetoing position player pickups based on his idea of what that position should cost.

How do you think owner approval of contracts works? Every contract comes with a position and a price. For all I know the Flames had maxed the preseason budget.

OTOH, I heard Edwards once tell a GM he could sign whoever he wanted. the precise words were “It’s your budget”. Of course, there was an undercurrent as well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

No. Steinberg confirmed the opposite. The Flames reached out to Gaudreau on day 1 of free agency.

It's even in that letter him or his agent put out.

"Man, even after I turned down the eight-year deal from Calgary, I still thought about going back and trying to work on a seven-year deal to stay. It was all on the table for the entire process."

It wasn't the Flames reaching out Treliving shot that down the day before.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Good to see that two different people with some Intel squash the "Sutter pushed certain players out" narrative. Not being in the know it is easy for people to speculate, but making stuff up and making assumptions just spreads more unnecessary trash. Appreciate the clarification.

I think a reasonable assumption is to assume that anyone posting insider knowledge has access to 1-2 people in the organization at most. And those people aren't snow, Conroy, Tre, Sutter, Bean, etc. It's probably an analyst, maybe a single player, a friend of a player, equipment manager, wife is friends with wife of player, scout, agent of middle six forward, etc.

At best they are getting a partial snippet of a story, one perspective of many and at best, it's heavily biased. To take one poster's anonymous source with anything more than a grain of salt is a bit silly.

Even the media - who has access to many more people around the league - is going to be biased by whom they get access to and how much they like the personalities involved, and how many clicks a story will get. And people reaching out to the media are usually pushing their own narrative and so the media isn't ever getting an unbiased version of a story and then they're adding their own bias on top of it.

As an example, Tre clearly a very good guy, treated media personalities well on human level and it shows in their reporting. Is the reporting on Tre biased to some extent - both by the journalist's personal opinion of the people involved and who they have access to? It would be naive to think otherwise.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It's even in that letter him or his agent put out.

"Man, even after I turned down the eight-year deal from Calgary, I still thought about going back and trying to work on a seven-year deal to stay. It was all on the table for the entire process."

It wasn't the Flames reaching out Treliving shot that down the day before.

IIRC Tre said something like 'he didn't anticipate further negotiations', which isn't exactly a shoot down.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

IIRC Tre said something like 'he didn't anticipate further negotiations', which isn't exactly a shoot down.

Something like that when a sled off they would give it another shot the next day an he didn't foresee it.

Would also be bizzare to hold a press conference to announce he's not coming back and turn around the next day trying to sign him again.

I'm guessing he saw the ugly offers and tried to run back to get his bag and was shot down.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Tkachuk left because he was so isolated in Canada during the response to Covid19. He didn't want to be in that situation again and reality is prior to the start of that season he was crushing beers in the southern US and living his best life. Then comes to Canada and it was isolating.

Yeah. I’ve thought that ever since Sutter was quoted saying he felt bad for Tkachuk during Covid. It really reminded people borders exist. No Covid and I think both Tkachuk and Gaudreau are still here.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Something like that when a sled off they would give it another shot the next day an he didn't foresee it.

Would also be bizzare to hold a press conference to announce he's not coming back and turn around the next day trying to sign him again.

I'm guessing he saw the ugly offers and tried to run back to get his bag and was shot down.

Which is even worse if true - it would have been way better to sign him for 7 yrs than 8.

I doubt Tre closed the door on anything, and I also doubt Johnny was super seriously considering it, but there's no reason (besides childish spite) to not keep the dialogue open.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What franchise is worse than the Flames.
Arizona. I guess. So second worst.

Honestly, I don't even agree with this anymore. Arizona has a clear plan. If we're assessing where organizations are today, and judge teams on playoff success in the modern era of 2005-2006 to current day, I don't think Arizona is worse than us. They're in a better position today than we are, and since 2005-2006 they have won two playoff rounds - how many rounds have the Flames won? It hurts, so I agree with your original statement that the Flames are the worst run organization.

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

That's fn crazy.

3 hours north we have a franchise that blows chunks but won the right lottery at the right time (with several tries) and had a mayor who wanted an arena development area more than he wanted to flip the bird to pro sports.

A dozen other teams have been horrible for parts of the decade and are still no better than the team here now.

Accepting Arizona as the floor, go ahead and name the teams that are above the flames by record in the last 3 years. Go 5 if it makes you feel better.

I am not expecting a great Flames story, but 'worst run' is emotional nonsense. The Habs have been better? Ooh those Jets. Maybe it's the Canucks you are thinking of.
Or the Coilers who are your deadbeat neighbour who won the lottery and now drums around in his bitchin camaro as though the mustard stain on his wifebeater went away.

Edit: I'd add this is also the team that had everyone wear pride jerseys. They fired (at cost) Peters because he was a dick in the past. They support a million things and the leadership has proclaimed that engaging the community is a non-negotiable. Does all that scream 'worst run'?

The Oilers are the significantly better team today and they absolutely caved our face in last season. You know for all this rubbish that they are so poorly run (and they absolutely for a time), guess how many playoff series they've won in the modern era of 2005-2006 to current day? They've won six series.

You seem to be in denial on how Stanley Cup Champion teams are built in this modern NHL, which makes you seemingly pretty aligned with our owner...so, cool.

The Flames have won two playoff series since 2005-2006. While yeah, we may have strong community relationships, we’re talking about success on the ice.

The Flames are the worst run organization in the NHL. The state of this team today can't be glossed over. Even the most optimistic fans that put this season on "luck" (bull!@#$ excuse)...how do you feel about the team sans Lindholm and sans Backlund? Two players who pretty openly want out, asap. What about some of the other players who aren't happy? Hell, Ryan Leslie even said that the list of unhappy players is growing thanks to the news that Tree is leaving. This is an absolute tire fire.

Aslo re: Flames V. Oilers - if you didn't see shades of Kevin Lowe talking about how "he knows a thing or two about winning" and how the Oilers have two tiers of fans in what John Bean was laying out in that press conference then you're not being honest with yourself.

[OldDutch]

I get its often lost in Oiler fans staying rabid no matter what, but I don’t think people realize how much that franchise lost to start to win. Like epic level of loser. Like worse than Cleveland Browns level. Their a joke.

Flames fans have never ever seen even one season as bad as 10 of the Oilers.

Its amazing anyone here could be proud of them. Everything they win is tainted, given the help the NHL has had to give them to keep them competitive. It’s embarrassing.