An internal path forward?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Time to take a look forward and see if there is a path out of the mess the Flames have found themselves in thanks to the fallout of the past couple weeks. Personally, I think there is a path forward here and one where the team can indeed come out of this smelling like a rose. It requires some transitions here and there, and some thinking outside the box. Here are my thoughts on how this can all work for the club and things shake out for the best with a future plan in mind.

General Manager

Personally, I think this is not as bad a situation as we think. The worst thing that COULD happen would be for Sutter to be named GM, but I don't think he has any interest in the job, which is why Malone was offered the position. I don't think Sutter is in the mix, which is good for the team.

Craig Conroy has been cutting his teeth and has the right tools for the job so does make some sense. He could be a solid addition and pick up where Treliving did from the soft skills and relationship perspective. We should not discount that important facet of the job. Relationships and relationship management are going to be key here. I would actually be comfortable with Conroy being GM so long as he had the right support. Maloney is a good "old school" check and balance but another guy to help out and be a little more business-centric would be extremely helpful. Would Brad Pascal in an associate or assistant GM role bring the right balance to the mix? I think that could make some sense and really help with continuity in the organization. Go with this troika and let things naturally evolve.

Coaching Staff

I'm all for cleaning house here. This should be a garage sale. Everything must go! That is unlikely to happen and we are stuck with Sutter for the time being.

The secret here is to try and minimize his impact on the team and introduce someone who has a similar strategy as Sutter but can also act as the middleman to the players. I think the Flames have that guy already in the system in Mitch Love. Bring him in as an associate coach and slowly transition Sutter out of the picture. Next bring in a couple of younger coaches who understand the changes in the game. Let Love help out in picking the young tacticians and come up with a staff that is more in touch with the league and how young players can positively impact the lineup. Love and a couple young guys to balance out the crusty dinosaur may make it easier for the young players to step in and find their places in the sun.

The Team

Figure out who wants to be here long-term and who doesn't. Ship out those who don't and move on. Sounds like Lindholm and Backlund are done so they need to be moved. Leaves a somewhat large hole in the middle, but two pieces that may help us recoup a player to help out. It is obvious that we're going to have to move out some salary and dip into the free agent market to plug some holes and focusing in on getting futures returns for the guys we are losing. If we can be tactical in nature I think we can make this work.

Out: Lucic, Lewis, Lindholm, Backlund, Markstrom/Vladar

This is going to free up some money that we can use to bring in some proven players that fit in the mix of fast and willing to battle, but also having the skill to play some east-west hockey.

Up from the farm: Pelletier, Coronato, Zary, Wolf

Youth movement, ENGAGE!

UFA Targets: J.T. Compher (28 - RS C/W), Colin White (26 - RS C)

Some may question these targets, but they play the right tyoe of hockey to be successful with the coaches and the mix of players. Compher is a Sam Bennett type player that Huberdeau should find success with. White is a responsible two-way player that has always given me a bit of a Yelle vibe and I think would be an outstanding replacement on the third or fourth line.

We go into 2023-24 with this lineup. Yes, I know it's not a Stanley Cup team but it would be fun to watch. Plus... just get in, and you never know (too soon?)!
Huberdeau-JT Compher-Toffoli
Mangipane-Kadri-Coronoto
Pelletier-Zary-Coleman
Dube-White-Duehr
Ruzicka

Weegar-Anderson
Tanev-Hanifin
Stecher-Zadorov

Markstrom/Vladar-Wolf

Hopefully we recoup some good assets from the departure of Backlund, Lindholm, and one of the goaltenders. Those futures will be important, as will any futures from players we can't extend and have to move at the next trade deadline.

It's ain't perfect, but it's a plan. It's an attempt to put a positive on what seems like a real negative situation, which I don't think is that bad. Get this done and I think we're headed in the right direction. All they need after that is shovels in the ground for a new building.

[Finger Cookin]

I won't eat my pubes if 4 rookie forwards (if all four of Coronato, Pelletier, Zary, and Duehr no longer technically qualify as rookies, substitute rookie for inexperienced) make the opening day lineup, but I would eat something disgusting that is at least intended to be consumed.

That said, this is a solid analysis. The circumstances to this begin this offseason seem different than last offseason, yet we're in the same mode of trying to salvage anything from disappointment.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I won't eat my pubes if 4 rookie forwards (if all four of Coronato, Pelletier, Zary, and Duehr no longer technically qualify as rookies, substitute rookie for inexperienced) make the opening day lineup, but I would eat something disgusting that is at least intended to be consumed.

A full box of Bertie Botts Every Flavor Beans but every single one is Dirt, Rotten Egg, Earwax or Booger.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I really don't like the idea of having a guy who can be head coach come on as a assistant in the hopes of having him be the head guy. The Oilers did it with McTavish the Sens with Murray and Paddock we had it here with Sutter and Playfair it doesn't work.

Having 4 rookies on the roster probably make him just retire anyways.

[Flames1217]

It all depends entirely on what direction they move with the trades.

If they trade Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli and Vladar for futures then we can go complete youth movement but if they bring back some players who can help today than I would look at bringing in help in free agency.

If we go pure futures, it could look something like this :

Lindholm we would be getting back at least what Horvat brought back.

Toffoli would bring back a 1st and a solid prospect.

Backlund should bring back a late first or a 2nd + solid prospect.

Tanev should bring back 2 2nds. Buffalo for example would be very interested.

Vladar is hard to gauge, maybe a 3rd and 5th

The other avenue would be trading for players in similar situations who may be interested in signing with us.

Maybe trade Lindholm to Carolina for Aho if he isn't interested in signing in Raleigh.

Trade Toffoli and a small plus to Florida for Reinhart.

The summer could be very interesting and will undeniably shape the team for years to come.

[DeluxeMoustache]

They promoted Sigalet to Director of Goaltending

Promote Sutter to Director of coaching. Make it a ‘work from home’ position
Or something else - Vice President of Cap Logistics. VP Analytics and Video review. Whatever. Also remote work

Scotty Bowman was Sr Advisor Hockey Ops. That will do

Make Conroy GM and Mitch Love coach


Or just turf Sutter. Once a hardass coach loses the room, he doesn’t get it back. Can’t leave him as coach with a young GM

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The secret here is to try and minimize his impact on the team and introduce someone who has a similar strategy as Sutter but can also act as the middleman to the players.

You'd have a better chance of promoting Sutter as Mr. Universe than minimizing his impact on the team.

If he's the coach, he's 100% impacting the team.

[traptor]

Plugging holes for your top 2 centers through Free agency is not a winning strategy...

If lindholm and backlund will not re-sign, I hope the flames are honest with themselves. This team will need to take a step back to take two steps forward at that point.

Call it a retool or a reset or whatever you want if you can't call it a rebuild. But that is what will need to be done.

[Wolfman]

I think the scouting staff needs to be looked at. Since 2017 there have been 261 career games played by Flames draft picks. Not near good enough IMO

[Royle9]

Todd Button has soaked up enough $$ from this organization, I would take a look at Carolina's scouting group and hire someone from there as our "head scout" and move on.
Sigalet and Button would be my first 2 removals.

I'd Love for Mitch to get the HC gig
This team needs an enema from the top down, and a "rebuild/retool" on the fly model with the UFA's we have this year and the group of players who seemingly feel they need to move on, now is the time.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I think the scouting staff needs to be looked at. Since 2017 there have been 261 career games played by Flames draft picks. Not near good enough IMO

At glance that seems like the case, but if you look at the players that will start playing some games, that 261 games will start to go up quickly. Pelletier, Wolf, Coronoto initially. Then you have Zary, Poirier that are on the cusp. Jury is still out on some of the others.

It doesn't help that there are a couple draft years where the picks were limited, but that isn't on the scouting staff.

[Major Major]

I struggle with the Love thing. I think it's of utmost importance that the flames give him some kind of transition role and make it clear he's the next one so he doesn't fly the coup. I also do not want Darryl to coach with an agenda like it seemed he did this year. Can he learn from this year? Can he accept that his power in this org is gradually going down? Or is he going to flip the bird at anyone and anything that points at this including having his heir apparent work as his assistant.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

I think the scouting staff needs to be looked at. Since 2017 there have been 261 career games played by Flames draft picks. Not near good enough IMO

You have to normalize for volume and quality of picks.
Looking at it strictly through games played doesn't tell the story nearly enough.

[Icantwhisper]

I feel for any GM going forward, how much influence will they have? Edwards still steers the ship and Sutter will still have just as much pull, if not more with the higher ups.
Feel like the GM will be a lame duck, hope I'm wrong

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I feel for any GM going forward, how much influence will they have? Edwards still steers the ship and Sutter will still have just as much pull, if not more with the higher ups.
Feel like the GM will be a lame duck, hope I'm wrong

Well it depends how much longer Sutter will stay, and if the GM will have the autonomy to fire/not renew him after his current contract expires. If it's only for two years, and it's the GM's call to pick the next coach, that likely won't deter majority of the candidates.

[1_Flames_Fan]

Love for head coach 100% or I can see him going elsewhere.

[GFG#1]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

It all depends entirely on what direction they move with the trades.

If they trade Lindholm, Backs, Tanev, Toffoli and Vladar for futures then we can go complete youth movement but if they bring back some players who can help today than I would look at bringing in help in free agency.

If we go pure futures, it could look something like this :

Lindholm we would be getting back at least what Horvat brought back.

Toffoli would bring back a 1st and a solid prospect.

Backlund should bring back a late first or a 2nd + solid prospect.

Tanev should bring back 2 2nds. Buffalo for example would be very interested.

Vladar is hard to gauge, maybe a 3rd and 5th

The other avenue would be trading for players in similar situations who may be interested in signing with us.

Maybe trade Lindholm to Carolina for Aho if he isn't interested in signing in Raleigh.

Trade Toffoli and a small plus to Florida for Reinhart.

The summer could be very interesting and will undeniably shape the team for years to come.

If Sutter is still the Coach Toffoli is going nowhere. Eventhough this organization should be selling high on him, they will not, as he is one of the few that likes to play for Sutter.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You have to normalize for volume and quality of picks.
Looking at it strictly through games played doesn't tell the story nearly enough.

Doesn't that just point to the team bleeding good picks as well?

[Harry Lime]

From a 'solution is in the room' viewpoint, I was wondering what a retool on the fly would look like, if the Flames didn't target any UFAs or older players to fill gaps. In my mind, the retool would consist of moving these players :

Dan Vladar - I think that Wolf needs NHL time, and the protection that Markstrom provides
Mikael Backstrom - Deserves a chance at a Cup
Elias Lindholm - Has stated misgivings about re-signing and is going to get PAID

and for the purposes of this exercise, two players that would be smart to move, but I wouldn't :

Noah Hanifin - as solid as they come, but I liked Zadorov-Tanev when they played, and he is worth his weight in gold. Also, he is going to get PAID
Tyler Toffoli - This guy really grew on me, and is a very positive influence, but after last year his value is at an absolute peak

Mangiapane - Kadri - Coleman
A shutdown line as the first line, you do what you got to do
Huberdeau - Dube - Coronato
best distributor and best shot, and Dube has always been a better C than W
Pelletier - Zary - Phillips
AHL first line, established chemistry
Ruzicka - Hunt - Duehr
classic motor line

Weegar - Andersson
I liked this pairing a lot
Zadorov - Tanev
I liked this pairing a lot
Gilbert - Stecher
Yes, I re-sign Stecher

Markstrom 70%
Wolf 30%

This is unreasonably not bringing in a single player, but the return on our five biggest assets would be substantial. Now that I've seen it written out, I think that I would enjoy watching this line-up way more than the one we witnessed this last year, even if they are on a steep learning curve. Honestly, with that defense and goaltending, they could still be competing, and the asset cupboards would be full.

[_Q_]

That's a garbage line up... but that's perfect. We need top 5 picks in the next few years. Enough with spinning our wheels as an organization.