[PGT] still alive but barely

[Two Fivenagame]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah I like Treliving. He makes more good decisions than bad. I think if you adjust for market he's a top ten GM in the league.

The rest of my post stands as accurate. You didn't push back on that at all with your Easter rhyme.

There's a Lebrun post above that takes your Treliving all in point down quickly.

BT is a top 10 GM every other year. Usually after he has to fire yet another coach. The team goes on a great run in the regular season followed by a spectacular collapse in the playoffs. Then back to missing the playoffs the next season. Coach fired. No progress made.

He's a top 10 GM when it comes to spending draft capital believing your team is a depth D acquisition away from winning it all.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

BT is a top 10 GM every other year. Usually after he has to fire yet another coach. The team goes on a great run in the regular season followed by a spectacular collapse in the playoffs. Then back to missing the playoffs the next season. Coach fired. No progress made.

He's a top 10 GM when it comes to spending draft capital believing your team is a depth D acquisition away from winning it all.

You're certainly welcome to your opinion ... lots of scar tissue there btw!

I just personally think the guy gets more right then wrong, maybe not a top ten (not sure how you'd even measure that) but he knows what he's doing.

Team on paper should have been better on the ice. It wasn't.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man you can be long winded.

A team with three solid centers, four top four defenders, above average 5-6 guys (one went AWOL), and a vezina finalist goaltender is a contending hockey team.

Too many good players didn't play well.

But that doesn't change the construction no matter how many words you throw at me.

It should be a playoff team but on paper, two 50 point centers and a 70 point center is rarely enough to be a true Stanley Cup contender in this league.

On paper at the start of the season the Avs, Oilers, Lightning, Rangers, Hurricanes and probably Bruins and Leafs were better teams at the start of the season. This team was never a Stanley Cup contender on paper, hard to see this group of players having another gear in the playoffs.

Eventually they should get some young talent in the inevitable rebuild that is coming in 12 months.

[united]

It is impressive how every bad move the Team has made were Edwards’ decisions while at the same time none of the good moves were his doing. What are the chances?!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It should be a playoff team but on paper, two 50 point centers and a 70 point center is rarely enough to be a true Stanley Cup contender in this league.

On paper at the start of the season the Avs, Oilers, Lightning, Rangers, Hurricanes and probably Bruins and Leafs were better teams at the start of the season. This team was never a Stanley Cup contender on paper, hard to see this group of players having another gear in the playoffs.

Eventually they should get some young talent in the inevitable rebuild that is coming in 12 months.

Agreed ... I never saw them as top 5.

Was pretty sure they were in the next set of 5 though (6-10)

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by united

It is impressive how every bad move the Team has made were Edwards’ decisions while at the same time none of the good moves were his doing. What are the chances?!

If you drop the sarcasm it's sort of logical.

Owners tells a GM what direction he has to go in, GM does his best to make good moves under that direction.

If you can't rebuild you have to make a trade, and with that did the GM make a good trade or a bad one?

You can judge the direction of the franchise on Edwards in my opinion, the work done in that direction under Treliving.

That's the measuring stick for the GM, and likely any GM employed in Calgary.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Agreed ... I never saw them as top 5.

Was pretty sure they were in the next set of 5 though (6-10)

I think that is the frustration of some fans though. They clearly are not good enough to contend for a Cup. So they go out and lockdown a 32 year old center who has had one elite year in his career and a 30 year old winger to longterm expensive contracts. Huberdeau I don’t mind and did not mind at the time by Kadri never made sense. The team was never close enough to hope that the two or three good years you may get out of Kadri could let you win a Cup and if you are not doing that the final 4 years of that contract are going to be gruesome.

[playmaker]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man you can be long winded.

A team with three solid centers, four top four defenders, above average 5-6 guys (one went AWOL), and a vezina finalist goaltender is a contending hockey team.

The problem IMHO is that three solid centers are apparently not a recipe for success in this league, the same can be said about three solid defensemen. We need game breaking talents.

[Shazam]

All the team really needed was .900 goaltending.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Originally Posted by Shazam

All the team really needed was .900 goaltending.

To make the playoffs. Great.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I think that is the frustration of some fans though. They clearly are not good enough to contend for a Cup. So they go out and lockdown a 32 year old center who has had one elite year in his career and a 30 year old winger to longterm expensive contracts. Huberdeau I don’t mind and did not mind at the time by Kadri never made sense. The team was never close enough to hope that the two or three good years you may get out of Kadri could let you win a Cup and if you are not doing that the final 4 years of that contract are going to be gruesome.

Agreed again.

The move worried me from the start, and you could suggest the first year was gruesome.

All comes down to how it went down.

Was it Treliving saying now that we've made the Tkachuk trade I'd like to add Kadri and go for it! He's the guy.

Or was it Edwards saying who's out there to fill in the rest of our cap so we can go for it this year.

[FormerPresJamesTaylor]

Ruzicka, Pelletier, Coronato and possibly Wolf not drawing into the line up the finish the season will be a major failure. Those players need to have a role on this team next year as well.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

Ruzicka, Pelletier, Coronato and possibly Wolf not drawing into the line up the finish the season will be a major failure. Those players need to have a role on this team next year as well.

From what I've heard they've had a two year plan for Wolf and won't deviate from it.

Ruzicka could be on his way out.

Hope to see Pelletier back in and Coronato for sure.

Wonder if they need to be officially out, or if they consider the odds long enough to start that work now?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Shazam

All the team really needed was .900 goaltending.

A lot of things could have changed the trajectory of the season.

A few more saves. A few more goals instead of posts. A few more OT wins. A few better lineup decisions. A few less terrible giveaways. We’ve had it all and more.

Just wait, next year the team will start getting those things and we’ll end up comfortably in the division top 3 and this debacle of a season will be long forgotten. It’s the Calgary way.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

It should be a playoff team but on paper, two 50 point centers and a 70 point center is rarely enough to be a true Stanley Cup contender in this league.

On paper at the start of the season the Avs, Oilers, Lightning, Rangers, Hurricanes and probably Bruins and Leafs were better teams at the start of the season. This team was never a Stanley Cup contender on paper, hard to see this group of players having another gear in the playoffs.

Eventually they should get some young talent in the inevitable rebuild that is coming in 12 months.

Everyone talks about young talent all the time.

The only young player in our system that has a chance of really moving the dial is Wolf. The rest look like supporting depth players to me. (Duehr, Ruzicka, Pelletier, Gilbert, coronato??).

I get that everyone wants a bunch of high end dominating young guys. Who wouldn’t. But I don’t see them.

I do see young players that can bump out players like Lucic, Lewis, Stone, Vladar or Markstrom (if you want to gamble) and maybe Mangiapane. To free up some cap space to go after a middle aged high skill free agent.

Who is going to give you young talent for our old guys in a trade?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Agreed again.

The move worried me from the start, and you could suggest the first year was gruesome.

All comes down to how it went down.

Was it Treliving saying now that we've made the Tkachuk trade I'd like to add Kadri and go for it! He's the guy.

Or was it Edwards saying who's out there to fill in the rest of our cap so we can go for it this year.

That is all true but I guess it is convenient that for Brad that is always an option, Murray made me do it. What if Brad said that Toffoli was too slow for the modern NHL and Murray said he wanted Toffoli because he is an elite shooter. That would make Murray smart in that scenario for that one player.

One would hope that the GM would have some ability to make his own moves rather than just listen to Murray when he wants to bring in Toffoli and Kadri. Because logically if Murray is the one saying bring in Kadri he has to be the one saying bring in Toffoli too.

Bottom line is this team is not good enough to compete for a Cup. They won’t be good enough next year to compete for a Cup. They do have pieces that could significantly accelerate the rebuilding process this summer. Hopefully they are smart enough to do that.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Everyone talks about young talent all the time.

The only young player in our system that has a chance of really moving the dial is Wolf. The rest look like supporting depth players to me. (Duehr, Ruzicka, Pelletier, Gilbert, coronato??).

I get that everyone wants a bunch of high end dominating young guys. Who wouldn’t. But I don’t see them.

I do see young players that can bump out players like Lucic, Lewis, Stone, Vladar or Markstrom (if you want to gamble) and maybe Mangiapane. To free up some cap space to go after a middle aged high skill free agent.

Who is going to give you young talent for our old guys in a trade?

If the Flames actually wanted to try to load up in young talent the following players, some over the summer and some at the deadline, could bring in a good haul IMO

Lindholm - two way center who gets you 65-80 points a year. On his contract that is a A+ prospect, a first and likely another solid young piece. Easily gets you the Horvat return, probably more. Gets you even more if you eat some contract or take a bad contract back.

Toffoli - gets you a similar package to Toffoli. Same rules apply about eating some contract or taking a bad contract back.

Backlund - probably gets you a top prospect and a 1st. Doubt there is a third piece unless you eat some contract.

Hanifin - could likely bring you in a haul but I would strongly consider trying to re-sign him.

Tanev - if healthy gets you at least a first at the deadline. Decision is whether it is better to try to trade him over the summer IMO.

Zadorov - probably gets you a couple picks at the deadline.

The Flames have a number of attractive pieces for a team that is trying to go for it next year. I doubt they do it, but that is what I hope they do, make a number of those moves.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man you can be long winded.

A team with three solid centers, four top four defenders, above average 5-6 guys (one went AWOL), and a vezina finalist goaltender is a contending hockey team.

Too many good players didn't play well.

But that doesn't change the construction no matter how many words you throw at me.

I don’t really agree.

No game-breaking #1 Defenceman.
No game-breaking #1 Centre.

I could certainly understand the Flames seeing if Lindholm was one this year, but he’s not.

The Flames took a “do it by committee” approach because they lack the top-end skill, and we’ve seen the results. I get the “committee” approach, but there are teams with elite players that also build high quality depth and those are the teams that ultimately win.

We don’t have the elite skill needed to be a Championship team, so I wouldn’t consider a team without that top talent a contender.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by FormerPresJamesTaylor

To make the playoffs. Great.

I'm sure the usual suspects will disagree, but I figure Marky lost at least four games. Add eight points to what they have now.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

From what I've heard they've had a two year plan for Wolf and won't deviate from it.

Probably the right thing to do, especially if it keeps him away from Sutter.

Ruzicka could be on his way out.

Moar Lucic, Lewis, and Ritchie!!!

It is sad to see a young player who has scored the same or more than all three players in just over half the games be treated the way he has. Ruzicka at a -1 just isn't as trustworthy as Lucic (-12), Lewis (-6), or Ritchie (-5 in only 15 games).

Hope to see Pelletier back in and Coronato for sure.

Wonder if they need to be officially out, or if they consider the odds long enough to start that work now?

Not 10 up or 10 down.