Trade the player or fire the coach?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Seems like Button understands what the answer is now.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

"Hindsight is 20/20"

Other earth-shaking revelations at 11.

[PaperBagger'14]

I absolutely love seeing humility from people in power. Yeah, Craig, you ####ed up, but to own up to it is a hell of a statement so thank you.

[Badgers Nose]

It was obvious back then too, especially considering Gilbert was gone not long after. Flames are almost as stupid now as they were back then (giving away unfinished young players for washed up vets).

Flames have to fire Sutter and get a coach that can develop players. Sutter now seems to need a roster of finished products, veterans. That only works in the last year or two of a window. This team is nowhere near that now.

[FireGilbert]

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

It was obvious back then too, especially considering Gilbert was gone not long after. Flames are almost as stupid now as they were back then (giving away unfinished young players for washed up vets).

Flames have to fire Sutter and get a coach that can develop players. Sutter now seems to need a roster of finished products, veterans. That only works in the last year or two of a window. This team is nowhere near that now.

Sutter and Gilbert shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.

And while I hear you about player development, Flames are one of the oldest teams in the league. I don't see a youth movement anytime soon.

And I'd argue young players can flourish under Sutter and build excellent habits.

He is stubborn though, and if given the choice he is not going to throw young players out there to sink or swim. He will only play them if he thinks they can help the team win. Sutter clearly doesn't see the NHL as a development league.

[FlamesAddiction]

It's not the first time that Button has admitted this mistake. He's been honest about it before.

I think a difference here is that Savard actually was producing and improving when put in the top 6. He had a 4 point night, the Flames won, and Gilbert healthy scratched him the next game. Of course he was frustrated. Then you add in that he was young and knew that his future earning potential was being impacted.

With Kadri and Huberdeau, both guys are older and getting paid. There is much less at stake for them financially. They have also been given top 6 ice time with every other top 6 player. In Huberdeau's case, the production has been very underwhelming, unlike Savard who was meeting or exceeding expectations when played in the top 6. Kadri's issue hasn't been production. He is producing as should have been expected. It's other parts of his game that are underwhelming. Both guys are to blame for their play and killed any trade value. Savard had trade value, Button just whiffed on it big time.

[UKflames]

You might have to clarify the thread title a bit, I thought the question related to now

[FireGilbert]

Seriously this thread has triggered me. Had to make a meme.

[dammage79]

I was gonna say why not both!?

But yeah, fire the coach. You have contracts you're anchored to and if you want to expect any sort of value from them, you'll need another coach. Sigh. Another coach. And another coach. And another, and then one more.

[Hemi-Cuda]

God this organization is so inept. Over 30 years without a competent GM to build a proper team, and with no end in sight. Forever in the bubble

[Major Major]

There are lessons in hindsight for every possible situation in the NHL. Trade that, fire this... You can find a situation that supports the narrative you like. I can't think of a less appropriate comparison than trading Savard to what is happening in Calgary right now. Lazy comparison

[Flamesfan05]

I would fire Sutter and trade Kadri if anybody wants him

Huberdeau I’d keep. He has unique world class skills, and it’s not like he is quitting on the team. Hoping he has a good year next year.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Not a lazy comparison. Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.

Don't really give a #### about what Sutter has done in the past, it's what he is doing right now that matters. The problem here is people look longingly back at the past where Sutter caught lightning in a bottle and took middling clubs to the Stanley Cup finals and believe it can and will happen again. At the same time they fail to remember that coaches can do great damage to players and contribute greatly to their failure. Sutter is doing the latter here and not setting this team up for the former.

Changes will happen this summer. Either the coach goes or the talent on the ice goes. I hope the Flames look at the past and realize there has never been a coach in this organization worthy of keeping over any player, especially coaches who rely on fading veterans over talented young players, simply because they "know what they have" in the veteran. The biggest reason this team is so unlikeable and unwatchable is because of the effect the coach is having. I hope the team finally learns from mistakes of the past.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

Seriously this thread has triggered me. Had to make a meme.

Imagine an early 2000’s Flames team with Savard, St. Louis, and Iginla

[SutterBrother]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Imagine an early 2000’s Flames team with Savard, St. Louis, and Iginla

Imagine an early 2020’s Flames team with Fox, Gaudreau, and Tkachuck.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

Imagine an early 2020’s Flames team with Fox, Gaudreau, and Tkachuck.

None of those players wanted to be here.

The other example - no such evidence.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

God this organization is so inept. Over 30 years without a competent GM to build a proper team, and with no end in sight. Forever in the bubble

But it takes a special kind of gile to make a perpetual bubble team that wins two division titles!

[taxbuster]

I don't think there is ANY appetite among ownership to dump Darryl unless he chooses to leave. Just absolutely cannot see it.

Tre? Don't know. He's his own man.

As far as the past umpteen years go, the GM can only do what ownership mandates. Unless the owners have given the GM free rein (yes, not reign or rain) the plan is set. And if that plan is "Just get in" then the path is set.

If ownership is pissed, they'll be pissed at Tre for misjudging Kadri...I think the other two will come around as they settle in over the off-season (and playoffs?). Kadri I'm more dubious about. Maybe he finds his GAF somewhere, maybe not.

Coach or player in 2023-2024? I'll take player for $200, Alex.

[t0rrent98]

As much as I like Darryl. I think he's got to go. Find a coach who can play to the strengths of Huberdeau and Kadri. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt for this season since its year 1 with the Flames but after that I hope they start to pick it up.

Maybe have Kirk Muller behind the bench or hire someone like Bruce Boudreau. If they can't cut with new coaches then its obviously all on the players