Sutter is the problem

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Flames arent rebuilding this summer. Their chance to rebuild was last summer and get a haul of futures for Tkachuk, not lock into an aging Kadri and hold on to Monahan for his final year. Then sell off on other players as they saw fit. Probably get a top 7 prospect in a deep draft this season too. That was the chance. They are so deep into the opposite end of that now that a rebuild now would be 10x harder and longer to get out of.

The Flames have 3 players under contract for longer than 3 seasons. They have Lindholm, Toffoli, Backlund, Hanifin, Tanev, and Zadorov all expiring after next season. This is absolutely a time when you rebuild. 6 players to sell-off on expiring contracts...that's when you do it.

Yep, would have been better to begin to do it last year - but they didn't. So do it now.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The is lots of evidence that attendance will drop if the team has a prolonged time period out of the playoffs, and that is what ownership cares about.

Francis himself said on The Big Show recently that attendance has already dropped this year. The fans are not entertained with the current product that’s on the ice. And you can’t blame them either. This is the most apathetic I’ve ever felt towards a Flames team in my time being a fan and others feel the same. Build the team properly ffs. You can‘t pull of CHEL trades and sign UFA’s to a cup anymore

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

It’s because it sure seems they did no frickin diligence on Huberdeau at all. Treliving saw the 115 point stat and that’s it. Jesus did they watch any video at all? Talk to anyone?

Biggest disaster signing in franchise history.

I believe Ashasx was making the point that Huberdeau didn't play with Barkov outside of the PP - and that the 960 dude attributing it to Barkov was wrong.

Do you actually think they didn't do work on Huberdeau before making the trade/then making the signing? When you look at Huby's history you see one of the best play makers in the league, a good forechecker, and generally just an elite offensive talent.

...they clearly could have done a better job assessing whether he'd work with Darryl though. Whoops.

[Ashasx]

Nm comixzone above got it

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The sunk costs of Kadri and Huberdeau should not impact how you steer your franchise.

As a businessman, Murray Edwards should know this better than anyone.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

The Flames have 3 players under contract for longer than 3 seasons. They have Lindholm, Toffoli, Backlund, Hanifin, Tanev, and Zadorov all expiring after next season. This is absolutely a time when you rebuild. 6 players to sell-off on expiring contracts...that's when you do it.

Yep, would have been better to begin to do it last year - but they didn't. So do it now.

Not saying that I wouldnt. I just dont see the Flames org going into a rebuild this summer especially with Sutter just re-signed for 3 years.

If they do it will be a retool. Not a rebuild.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

It’s because it sure seems they did no frickin diligence on Huberdeau at all. Treliving saw the 115 point stat and that’s it. Jesus did they watch any video at all? Talk to anyone?

Biggest disaster signing in franchise history.

Lol - saying they didn't do due dilligence is hilarious. People are acting like he wasn't legitimately a top player in the NHL coming into this season.

Huberdeau was a lock for top line LW on Team Canada coming into this season on a lot of those "Team Canada Prediction" type of things.

And it's not just one season:

19-20 to 21-22:

Even Strength Points Per Game: 0.77
Power Play Points Per Game: 0.45
Total Points Per Game: 1.25 PPG

Top 10 in the NHL in all of those metrics over a 3 year period. And not because he was playing with Barkov - because he only played about 40% of the time with Barkov.

Now this year:

22-23:

Even Strength Points Per Game: 0.5 PPG
Power Play Points Per Game: 0.2 PPG
Total Points Per Game: 0.7 PPG

Now personally I think a big part of the PP struggles probably can't be placed on Huberdeau - our PP has been terrible all year and the coaches seem to not have an answer.

At 5v5 the decline hurts - but overall I do think Huberdeau has been focused on playing a much strong 200ft game. His xGF% is actually the best of his career, effort is not the issue here IMO.

You give that player a chance to bounce back though. Growing pains under a new more demanding coach that wanted stronger defensive play, and the production decline isn't that unexpected.

[Manhattanboy]

Of course that part of my post was facetious.

But you guys are very forgiving.

I see lazy whiner who obviously enjoyed the country club atmosphere and the FLA sunshine.

We desperately need a MacKinnon type with fire. I’m not saying we could have got that kind of guy for Chucky but I see nothing in Huberdeau to want him as a core part of my team for 2 years let alone 8.

Just a huge disappointment.

[HighLifeMan]

A lot of heat on Huberdeau despite him being this teams most productive five on five player when the season has been on the line over the past 10 games.

8 five on five points in the past 10 games. 9 points total. Hell - he's not even playing on the "1st" PP unit currently.

Backlund? 1 point
Mangiapane? 3 points
Kadri? 4 assists
Dube? 3 points

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The problem is in the end it doesn't matter what the 500 or so hardcore fans on a site like Calgary Puck will say.

The is lots of evidence that attendance will drop if the team has a prolonged time period out of the playoffs, and that is what ownership cares about.

No doubt in most markets attendance would take a hit but you can’t let it drive mediocrity to the point we’re at now. Fans want to see a light at the end of the tunnel instead of being guided to bull#### which is what they’ve been fed for years. Sure Sutter and Co can talk up a big game of unfinished. Sounds great but the fans see through the emperors clothes. When fans see a light at the end of the tunnel they’d naturally come back. But that short term sacrifice needed to be done yesterday. Now we’re left holding assets with diminishing value.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Of course that part of my post was facetious.

But you guys are very forgiving.

I see lazy whiner who obviously enjoyed the country club atmosphere and the FLA sunshine.

We desperately need a MacKinnon type with fire. I’m not saying we could have got that kind of guy for Chucky but I see nothing in Huberdeau to want him as a core part of my team for 2 years let alone 8.

Just a huge disappointment.

So yeah, we do need a Mackinnon (and a Makar, Rantanen, and Landeskog).

So…rebuild time!

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

A lot of heat on Huberdeau despite him being this teams most productive five on five player when the season has been on the line over the past 10 games.

8 five on five points in the past 10 games. 9 points total. Hell - he's not even playing on the "1st" PP unit currently.

Backlund? 1 point
Mangiapane? 3 points
Kadri? 4 assists
Dube? 3 points

Yup - leads the team at 5v5 scoring in the last 15 games with 10 points in the last 15 games.

If anything he's really started to look dangerous at 5v5 over that time too. Creating more, and IMO could probably have even a couple more points off some of his nice set ups.

He hasn't been the issue down the stretch here at all.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Of course that part of my post was facetious.

But you guys are very forgiving.

I see lazy whiner who obviously enjoyed the country club atmosphere and the FLA sunshine.

We desperately need a MacKinnon type with fire. I’m not saying we could have got that kind of guy for Chucky but I see nothing in Huberdeau to want him as a core part of my team for 2 years let alone 8.

Just a huge disappointment.

I'm willing to give him another season before we write him off as a player.

[FlamesAddiction]

Huberdeau just isn't the kind of player that opens up space himself. He relies on other players pressure the opposition and carry the puck, then he capitalizes on opportunities. He plays like guy who doesn't want the puck or the responsibility. Bennett and Duclair were always buzzing around taking attention off Huberdeau. The Flames expected Huberdeau to be the guy to drive the ship and make his line mates better, but I think this was a miscalculation. It's notable that Bennett's PPG production has barely changed this season without Huberdeau. The 0.06 PPG difference could easily be attributed to season-to-season variation.

If the Flames do go ahead with Huberdeau, and it's likely not a choice at this point, they need to find the kinds of players that can do main work for him. It's a shame, because players like that shouldn't be getting $10.5 million per season, but it is what it is now. It's also a shame, because guys like Lindholm, Kadri, Mangiapane and Toffoli should be better on paper than what he worked with in Florida. Honestly, Huberdeau is too high maintenance. He had a perfect situation in Florida and it was unlikely to playout the same way anywhere else.

[1qqaaz]

Sutter is a problem. Huberdeau, Kadri and Markstom are problems. The assistance coaches, who don't stand up to Sutter, are problems. Treliving and his handling of contracts is a problem.

But none of them are THE problem. That's Murray Edwards.
He's the reason the team has been mediocre for so long.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Remember when Whoberdeau said Lindholm was gonna score 50 with him?

That was before he was told to not pass it to him but instead feed it back to the point for a long distance no traffic shot on goal.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Of course that part of my post was facetious.

But you guys are very forgiving.

I see lazy whiner who obviously enjoyed the country club atmosphere and the FLA sunshine.

We desperately need a MacKinnon type with fire. I’m not saying we could have got that kind of guy for Chucky but I see nothing in Huberdeau to want him as a core part of my team for 2 years let alone 8.

Just a huge disappointment.

So instead Tkachuk is enjoying the "country club atmosphere and the FLA sunshine" How has he produced this year? Maybe just maybe players like being in a situation where they enjoy coming to the rink instead of dealing with Mr Grumpypants.

[InternationalVillager]

Hot Take:

Nathan Mackinnon would be a 60 point player on this team.

This is directed at the poster above.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Lol - saying they didn't do due dilligence is hilarious. People are acting like he wasn't legitimately a top player in the NHL coming into this season.

Huberdeau was a lock for top line LW on Team Canada coming into this season on a lot of those "Team Canada Prediction" type of things.

And it's not just one season:

19-20 to 21-22:

Even Strength Points Per Game: 0.77
Power Play Points Per Game: 0.45
Total Points Per Game: 1.25 PPG

Top 10 in the NHL in all of those metrics over a 3 year period. And not because he was playing with Barkov - because he only played about 40% of the time with Barkov.

Now this year:

22-23:

Even Strength Points Per Game: 0.5 PPG
Power Play Points Per Game: 0.2 PPG
Total Points Per Game: 0.7 PPG

Now personally I think a big part of the PP struggles probably can't be placed on Huberdeau - our PP has been terrible all year and the coaches seem to not have an answer.

At 5v5 the decline hurts - but overall I do think Huberdeau has been focused on playing a much strong 200ft game. His xGF% is actually the best of his career, effort is not the issue here IMO.

You give that player a chance to bounce back though. Growing pains under a new more demanding coach that wanted stronger defensive play, and the production decline isn't that unexpected.

I laugh at those that say Huberdeau is finished. He was literally a top 10; sometimes top 5 player in the league over the past 4-5 years.

Guy put up 115 points playing with Sam Bennett and Anthony Duclair FFS.

Duclair was on pace for 64 pts. Bennett on pace for 57 pts.

Huberdeau put up 115.....

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Hot Take:

Nathan Mackinnon would be a 60 point player on this team.

This is directed at the poster above.

I'm not sure that is much of a hot take. Given his temper I think MacKinnon would have demanded a trade by now for sure. I could see him and Sutter actually coming to blows lol.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Hot Take:

Nathan Mackinnon would be a 60 point player on this team.

This is directed at the poster above.

Lol no he wouldn’t. Mackinnon is a cut above everyone that’s on the Flames. He’s a bulldog who has elite hands, vision, shot and skating. He might not be scoring at a 100 point pace on this current team, but he’d still be a point a game player on the Flames