Sutter is the problem

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Dion

I still want to see how Hubi produces under a different coach.

First thing I do before making any changes is determine if he even wants to be here. Its no secret that he hates the coach (and that could be 100% of his dislike of the situation) but if he's wanting out if the coach is back then I also see that as a sign of giving up on the team and his teammates. Maybe with Sutter gone it fixes everything but if I'm the GM I need to determine if he actually wants to be a Calgary Flame.

[Manhattanboy]

Seattle Kraken fans are going to see playoff hockey in a wide open Western Conference. And their team is hardly limping in.

We will not. Let that sink in when thinking about renewing your season tix.

[bluejays]

Glad flames fans are coming around to a rebuild. There should be banging on corporate offices to get them to do it. I said it in the off-season that they’d be making a mistake of signing middle age players to long term deals. Doubling down on a mistake rarely ever works out. Now that playoffs is slipping away it’s looking even worse because of not getting assets for this years draft. All in all I hope ownership is embarrassed at their heavy handed decisions and we can move on and do a proper rebuild. The old days of just forcing it through will never work. They’re taking a bitter pill now and finding out the hard way.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Yup.

It's not that a replacement will necessarily be better or smarter than Sutter, but we need to know how these guys look under a coach that they don't have massive differences with.

Hubi played with Barkov last season and had his best season. Maybe it's a testiment of how good Barkov is as a player

We obviously still don't know what the ceiling for this group is because of how far below their career average these guys have played.

A part of me thinks this season was one of those where anything that could go wrong did go wrong. I'm hoping that next year we will see the team rebound and play to it's potential.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Glad flames fans are coming around to a rebuild. There should be banging on corporate offices to get them to do it. I said it in the off-season that they’d be making a mistake of signing middle age players to long term deals. Doubling down on a mistake rarely ever works out. Now that playoffs is slipping away it’s looking even worse because of not getting assets for this years draft. All in all I hope ownership is embarrassed at their heavy handed decisions and we can move on and do a proper rebuild. The old days of just forcing it through will never work. They’re taking a bitter pill now and finding out the hard way.

The problem is in the end it doesn't matter what the 500 or so hardcore fans on a site like Calgary Puck will say.

The is lots of evidence that attendance will drop if the team has a prolonged time period out of the playoffs, and that is what ownership cares about.

[Manhattanboy]

Well it seems we are winning all the media awards for biggest disappointment in the league. Guess that’s something.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Seattle Kraken fans are going to see playoff hockey in a wide open Western Conference. And their team is hardly limping in.

We will not. Let that sink in when thinking about renewing your season tix.

I feel like a decline in season ticket sales would just cause Murray Edwards to double down on his short sighted strategy

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Dion

Hubi played with Barkov last season and had his best season. Maybe it's a testiment of how good Barkov is as a player

That's false.

Huberdeau played 200 minutes at 5v5 with Barkov, and 800 minutes at 5v5 without Barkov.

He was on the ice for 14 goals for and 9 goals against at 5v5 with Barkov.

And 51 GF and 41 Goals against at 5v5 without Barkov.

Now you could say maybe his play on the Powerplay was because of Barkov but Huberdeau had 38 PP points to Barkov's 26 PP points, and Huberdeau was third in the NHL behind just the wonder twins up in Edmonton. If anything I think our PP Coach not finding a way to actually build a PP unit around Huberdeau and Lindholm is a much bigger issue than Huberdeau forgetting how to play on the PP.

So yeah, stating his play last year was because of Barkov is 100% false.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That's false.

Huberdeau played 200 minutes at 5v5 with Barkov, and 800 minutes at 5v5 without Barkov.

He was on the ice for 14 goals for and 9 goals against at 5v5 with Barkov.

And 51 GF and 41 Goals against at 5v5 without Barkov.

Stating his play was because of Barkov is 100% false.

I stand corrected then.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Seattle Kraken fans are going to see playoff hockey in a wide open Western Conference. And their team is hardly limping in.

We will not. Let that sink in when thinking about renewing your season tix.

How Vegas and Seattle have started is ####ing blasphemous

These are expansion teams that just stepped into the league. This shouldn't happen.

Expansion rules are way too generous. These guys already have nice new arenas. They should have to suffer at least a few years before seeing playoffs. Not Western conference finals in their first two seasons.

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I feel like a decline in season ticket sales would just cause Murray Edwards to double down on his short sighted strategy

Exactly. If people want change and a re-build then they also need to commit to the plan. If season ticket sales drop significantly then I don't see the owners agreeing to that path.

[Ashasx]

Even Jason Bukala was on 960 this morning attributing Huberdeau's success last year to Barkov. No idea how some people have jobs in this sport.

[Samonadreau]

Flames arent rebuilding this summer. Their chance to rebuild was last summer and get a haul of futures for Tkachuk, not lock into an aging Kadri and hold on to Monahan for his final year. Then sell off on other players as they saw fit. Probably get a top 7 prospect in a deep draft this season too. That was the chance. They are so deep into the opposite end of that now that a rebuild now would be 10x harder and longer to get out of.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

How Vegas and Seattle have started is ####ing blasphemous

These are expansion teams that just stepped into the league. This shouldn't happen.

Ya looks like our best path back to the playoffs is move the team and get an expansion franchise.

Nice work Tre!!

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

Exactly. If people want change and a re-build then they also need to commit to the plan. If season ticket sales drop significantly then I don't see the owners agreeing to that path.

My problem is how do I show disdain for the current plan without Murray Edwards thinking 'I knew the fans would stop showing up if we missed the playoffs. The next GM must do everything he can to make the playoffs next year".

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'm not exclusively blaming the coach. I think the roster needs to get blown up just as much as the coach needs to get fired.

With that said though, you have to look at things on a smaller scale. Being "tired of blaming the coach for players not performing" - that sounds like you're looking at the history of the Flames and are tired of them firing coaches and not blaming the players, even though the Flames coaching rotation is on-par with league norms.

Focus the view though:

Jonathan Huberdeau, 4 straight years of being a PPG player and better.

Nazem Kadri, constant pro, important part of a Stanley Cup Champion just last season.

They come here and their games collapse. Why is that? Both of those players have a history of performing - why does it not all of a sudden work? How does Jonathan Huberdeau hit the NHL record for biggest one-season drop off in production? That's all on Huberdeau? Really? You truly believe environment/other roster components/coach utilization doesn't weigh in?

He just needs to "work harder and earn more ice time"? That's such a narrow view of the situation in my eyes.

Look at it further too - James Neal comes here and his game falls off a cliff. Troy Brouwer comes here and his game falls off a cliff. Jacob Markstrom comes here and his game is all over the damn place.

Maybe it's time this team stops going out and spending signfiicant money on UFAs that are 30 or older? We've certainly got a pretty good history of proving that's generally a bad idea. Chris Tanev is like the one outlier where it looks like he'll get through his full contract without it being a disaster. Frolik was probably the next best but his contract ended up being a disaster in the last two years.

Kadri had the outlier year with the Avs playing on a stacked team. His output this year is right in line with his historical norms. Career 0.69 ppg, which is 56 points over 82. This is Nazem Kadri. Though I was expecting a bit more edge to his game.

Huberdeau is...well...a mystery to me.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Flames arent rebuilding this summer. Their chance to rebuild was last summer and get a haul of futures for Tkachuk, not lock into an aging Kadri and hold on to Monahan for his final year. Then sell off on other players as they saw fit. Probably get a top 7 prospect in a deep draft this season too. That was the chance. They are so deep into the opposite end of that now that a rebuild now would be 10x harder and longer to get out of.

The sunk costs of Kadri and Huberdeau should not impact how you steer your franchise.

As a businessman, Murray Edwards should know this better than anyone.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ya looks like our best path back to the playoffs is move the team and get an expansion franchise.

Nice work Tre!!

It truly and actually would be.

Edwards should move his penny pinching (looking at the arena) group out of town like he threatened to and let literally any other prospective owners swoop in and take advantage of this great hockey market.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Dion

Hubi played with Barkov last season and had his best season. Maybe it's a testiment of how good Barkov is as a player.

The great thing here is that the center he actually played with was Sam Bennett

Maybe it’s a testament to how good Sam Bennett is

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Even Jason Bukala was on 960 this morning attributing Huberdeau's success last year to Barkov. No idea how some people have jobs in this sport.

It’s because it sure seems they did no frickin diligence on Huberdeau at all. Treliving saw the 115 point stat and that’s it. Jesus did they watch any video at all? Talk to anyone?

Biggest disaster signing in franchise history.