Also, I remember specifically ppl in and around the organization saying Muller was hired to bridge the gap between Sitter and the players. What the hell happened there?.
Yeah, I think he's been a colossal failure as an assistant. Isn't he in charge of the power play too? Not good work from him or any of the coaches to be honest.
I agree that Sutter has lost the room, but this isn't recent. I saw signs of this around game 10 of the season. Whatever he did early on he couldn't come back from. The players don't trust or respect him. There's no saving it, so you have to fire him, regardless of the extension he signed. You cannot continue to have a work environment like this where nobody wants to be in the same room or work together on solving the problems.
Fix it.
New G.M. as soon as the season is over. Keep the amateur scouts to prepare for the draft and that's about it. Clean house for the entire organization and start fresh for next year. Sutter...go back to the farm.
There is so much more talent on this team than what is showing up on the boxscore every night. It's an absolute travesty to waste a year of prime playing time for these guys. Don't waste a second year please.
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And yet, if Markstrom could stop a beach ball for three quarters of the season, the Flames likely would comfortably be in a playoff spot. Add on the posts luck, and we might be seeing Flames contend for back-to-back division titles, and no one would be bitching about Sutter.
Markstrom and the top players, namely Huberdeau, are the biggest problems with the team this season. I don't believe Sutter is the problem that needs to be rid of for the team to be better. I would prefer he sticks around since this franchise does need a coach that holds accountability for players to perform at their best due to the string of bad coaching hires. There are several players that are doing that, while the ones you're expecting more out of are not.
But in the off season if they're gonna get rid of the coaching staff, because the belief is he can't remain coach for this roster, then they better being doing a wholesale change to the front office also. Move on from Treliving also since his decade here has produce mediocre results. His biggest weakness, and possibly big downfall, is his coaching hires. When ownership has to step in to get better coaches than he could pick up, it feels like the clock on his time with the Flames was ticking at that point.
If Sutter goes, he shouldn't be the only one going. Make a cultural change in the front office, and give the new GM full control over their staff. Bring new life to the franchise since the GM seat is the remaining variable that hasn't changed.
Markstrom and the top players, namely Huberdeau, are the biggest problems with the team this season. I don't believe Sutter is the problem that needs to be rid of for the team to be better. I would prefer he sticks around since this franchise does need a coach that holds accountability for players to perform at there best due to the string of bad coaching hires. There are several players that are doing that, while the ones you're expecting more out of are not.
There's definitely something that rubs me the wrong way about this whole situation if it is indeed true that Kadri and Huberdeau are at the top of the list of people who aren't getting along with Sutter.
Two veteran players who were just given gigantic deals by a new team and they immediately have a problem with the coach? Like i don't see other veteran guys like Backlund or Tanev having problems. Even Gaudreau and Tkachuk who left and apparently didn't like Sutter (at least Tkachuck) had a crazy good year under him. We didn't hear complaints. And Tkachuk isn't even a veteran player but more of the new generation.
Now if Kadri and Huberdeau would be having good years and then still complaining I'd have more sympathy. But they've absolutely sucked compared to the expectations and Kadri is noticeably mailing it in. Just shut up and play better, other players seem to manage.
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Every coach with .887 goaltending has lost their rooms.
Someone mentioned it in another thread a couple weeks or so back, but it does feel like good coaching correlates with good enough goaltending. Bad goaltending is going to make any coach look bad. Unless you got a McDavid where you can outscore your troubles in the regular season.
Too bad Sutter has absolutely nothing even close to a McDavid. The highest point producer by season's end might not even have HALF of the points McDavid will get.
Where's my room? Oh, there it is. It's the one with the 6 million dollar colander and 2 guys on their cell phones to some guy named Alan. Damn, not sure if I want to find this room.
Remember the trade deadline when prices were insane and many people wanted the Flames to trade a guy like Tofolli for an absolute haul of futures? Such great work believing this team is even close to making any noise.
I think Trelieving is tired of interference from ownership. From hiring Sutter to forcing the team to try to scrape into playoffs each year. He's counting down the days to freedom.
Was Tanev really as bad as the highlights made him look? Looked brutal.
It was an unusually bad game for him. I love that guy, but IMO he’d be a guy I would trade if I could, just at this point in his career and style of play.
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So we have a GM that doesn't want to be here anymore.
We have players who don't want the coach here anymore.
Owners who don't want to be in the Saddledome anymore
This could be a disastrous off season. I hope someone in that place has an idea of what they are doing.
There's definitely something that rubs me the wrong way about this whole situation if it is indeed true that Kadri and Huberdeau are at the top of the list of people who aren't getting along with Sutter.
Two veteran players who were just given gigantic deals by a new team and they immediately have a problem with the coach? Like i don't see other veteran guys like Backlund or Tanev having problems. Even Gaudreau and Tkachuk who left and apparently didn't like Sutter (at least Tkachuck) had a crazy good year under him. We didn't hear complaints. And Tkachuk isn't even a veteran player but more of the new generation.
Now if Kadri and Huberdeau would be having good years and then still complaining I'd have more sympathy. But they've absolutely sucked compared to the expectations and Kadri is noticeably mailing it in. Just shut up and play better, other players seem to manage.
There's waaaaay more to it then just "suck it up and play better" when it comes to the disjoint between team and coach.
This has been going on ALL season, not just the last 15 or so games.
This issue extends far beyond just Huberdeau/Kadri and into many core pieces this team has had long before they joined this year.
Sutter is given far too much of a pass based on results that are over a decade old. His "schtick" of being the hard ass, no praise, put you down constantly in the media and downplay everything positive about the team has worn thin on many. The results speak for themselves, and the absolute lack of desire to show up is clear and visible now.
Players need to enjoy coming to the rink, they should lay their lives out on the ice for each other every night. Like Boomer has been preaching, this team is not a team, its just 5 guys jumping on the ice every minute and packing it in. Nobody cares out there, nobody wants to be playing hockey it seems.
Huberdeau didnt forget how to play hockey, I've said it before he doesnt fit into Sutter's system at all, and Sutter doesn't let him play the way he's been effective his ENTIRE career. Huberdeau is the most ELITE east/west play maker in the NHL and had been up until joining the Flames. He didn't just forget how to play hockey this year, he's been restricted in how he plays and that effects his entire skill set. His linemate usage has been awful, and so his creativity has been lackluster and it shows, in spades.
Sutters north/south playoff "1 goal game" style of hockey doesn't mesh with how the roster is assembled. Your best players need to be given the freedom to play the way that works, and that was evident last year when Johnny, Matthew and Elias were given complete freedom and played more east/west and were the top line in the NHL.
For whatever reason this year, Sutter slammed Huberdeau early on saying he has a lot to learn, even though the Flames came out hot with a 5-1 record. From that point forward you could clearly see his creativity and his east/west passing turned into dump a chase with linemates who couldn't support that playstyle.
There's so many red flags with the handling of players this year (Phillips, Valimaki, Pelletier etc)
The coach has lost the room, the GM is unsigned next year and your top guys are signed to contracts that are borderline untradeable.
But you cant convince me for a second that Huberdeau isn't ELITE, if he was still on Florida I'd bet good money he's easily a PPG player again. His minutes are the lowest they've been in his career, he's played more games/minutes stapled to Kadri and Lucic than any other player.
This franchise is in the worst spot its been in probably 2 decades and its ugly.
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There's waaaaay more to it then just "suck it up and play better" when it comes to the disjoint between team and coach.
This has been going on ALL season, not just the last 15 or so games.
This issue extends far beyond just Huberdeau/Kadri and into many core pieces this team has had long before they joined this year.
Sutter is given far too much of a pass based on results that are over a decade old. His "schtick" of being the hard ass, no praise, put you down constantly in the media and downplay everything positive about the team has worn thin on many. The results speak for themselves, and the absolute lack of desire to show up is clear and visible now.
I don't remember hearing any of this last year. This year has been brutal but it can't all be on Sutter.
But you cant convince me for a second that Huberdeau isn't ELITE, if he was still on Florida I'd bet good money he's easily a PPG player again. His minutes are the lowest they've been in his career, he's played more games/minutes stapled to Kadri and Lucic than any other player.
This franchise is in the worst spot its been in probably 2 decades and its ugly.
Florida got rid of him because they didn't like what they saw out of him. This can't be stated enough. You simply don't see 100 point players (that want to stay put) jettisoned very often unless there are issues at play. Particularly down the stretch and into the playoffs last year he was not nearly good enough and we are seeing that now here. Rumours of him still pouting and sulking about the move are very concerning. He needs to stop acting like a child and remember that he's being paid ridiculously to be a top end player and the season he is having is completely embarrassing.
Your answer is to bring in a coach that will let him float and dipsy-doodle? Well what does that do for the Flames if/when they actually get into the playoffs again? He's typically less noticeable than 3rd and 4th liners and is being outscored by checking centers and defencemen on this team. How has the guy not taken over at least half a dozen games offensively at some point this year? Even if stifled at EV, there is no reason he can't be a dominant PP player with the personnel on this team.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 03-21-2023 at 09:18 AM.
I don't remember hearing any of this last year. This year has been brutal but it can't all be on Sutter.
Both Johnny and Tkachuk have come out at different times and said that they weren't big fans of Sutters. Tkachuk more recently.
But both did have career years along with Lindholm. But go back and watch how they played, they were completely east/west and Sutter seemed to let it go.
Whether that was the line tuning him out, or allowing them more freedom we'll never know. But its very evident and stands out clearly as to why they were the best in the NHL.
It's not all on Sutter, goaltending remains to be league worst.
Doesn't help when your top players aren't putting up points like they're paid to do, but Sutter's as much to blame for that in my mind.
He makes the lines, he rolls 4 lines more than any other coach in the league. He staples his star players to the bench game in and game out.
Kind of weird to me that there's been basically confirmation that there's a rift between GM and Coach, veteran & star players and the coach, prospects and the coach all in the same season.
Yet this coach is still given a pass because he's Sutter and he's won 2 cups
This team needs an enema.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus
Florida got rid of him because they didn't like what they saw out of him. This can't be stated enough. You simply don't see 100 point players (that want to stay put) jettisoned very often unless there are issues at play. Particularly down the stretch and into the playoffs last year he was not nearly good enough and we are seeing that now here. Rumours of him still pouting and sulking about the move are very concerning. He needs to stop acting like a child and remember that he's being paid ridiculously to be a top end player and the season he is having is completely embarrassing.
The guy is a dud and can only produce when he's allowed to free wheel.
Your answer is to bring in a coach that will let him float and dipsy-doodle? Well what does that do for the Flames if/when they actually get into the playoffs again?
This is made up, he had 31 pts in the last 20 games (mid-March to April) for the 1 spot on Florida.
The entire Florida team was soft in the playoffs, they wanted to get tougher which is why they wanted Tkachuk.
Dont forget Tkachuk was absolute dumpster fire for the Flames both playoff series, does that make him a dud too?
Best LW in the NHL and he's a "dud" - Okay lol.
Career PPG player "dud"
He's a whiner for being blindsided by a team who told him they were going to resign him to the place where he's played his entire career - Okay.
Yep, suck it up Huberdeau you dud, your feelings as a human mean nothing.
You do understand there's a human element to being a pro-athlete yea? Very easy to GM from the confinements of your computer chair and ignore all aspects of humanity.
I don't have an answer, but its VERY clear the Coach is an issue after having confirmed rifts with both the GM and players this year.
Last edited by Royle9; 03-21-2023 at 09:25 AM.
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Both Johnny and Tkachuk have come out at different times and said that they weren't big fans of Sutters. Tkachuk more recently.
But both did have career years along with Lindholm. But go back and watch how they played, they were completely east/west and Sutter seemed to let it go.
Whether that was the line tuning him out, or allowing them more freedom we'll never know. But its very evident and stands out clearly as to why they were the best in the NHL.
It's not all on Sutter, goaltending remains to be league worst.
Doesn't help when your top players aren't putting up points like they're paid to do, but Sutter's as much to blame for that in my mind.
He makes the lines, he rolls 4 lines more than any other coach in the league. He staples his star players to the bench game in and game out.
Kind of weird to me that there's been basically confirmation that there's a rift between GM and Coach, veteran & star players and the coach, prospects and the coach all in the same season.
Yet this coach is still given a pass because he's Sutter and he's won 2 cups
This team needs an enema.
I'm not completely giving Sutter a pass, he's made some baffling decision throughout the year. That's why I've speculated that he wants Treliving's job, obviously tinfoil hat territory but it's very hard to understand how he's managed the team this year.
Solid win! Great goaltending. Star players showed up to make impacts. Crisp passing and accurate shooting. Great support from the fans who gave the team a ton of energy. Team used their bodies to deliver hits, went to the corners to make plays. Overall it's very apparent this team is built for the playoffs and will do damage come spring. If I was a fan I would be excited to see the team make a run, as they have been built the right way.
Talking about the Kings of course.
Flames choking when it matters most. Chance to get within a grasp of a PO spot, and do what they do every single year when it matter most; choke it away.
Not even upset, as this kind of choke job is expected with this organization.
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