2022-2023 Toronto Raptors/NBA season thread

[Hockey_Ninja]

Amazing

https://twitter.com/user/status/1627148346917003264

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Amazing

https://twitter.com/user/status/1627148346917003264

Is it? After Vince did what he did there's not much more to top it. It became a prop game ever since that. That looks good, but all in all it's a meh from me. We've reached the peak of the human capability when Vince did what he did.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He hit his dunks in one try.

Also Jericho Sims wtf one of the worst ever.

[Jordan!]

KD first game with Phoenix will be tomorrow. I still can't believe that deal happened.

[Beninho]

Last 3 possessions, all they needed was a bucket but they chuck three 3’s. Siakam and Fred are painful to watch closes games regardless of how this one ends.

[mile]

Huge win today

[Hockey_Ninja]

Fred’s getting fined quite a bit for this (NSFW language)

NSFW!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1633714288144646145

[RogerWilco]

Well at least he isn't flashing guns in strip clubs and then posting himself on Instagram Live.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

No, this is much worse from an NBA perspective.

I am now fine with the Raptors handing Fred the largest contract in NBA history on the condition that he uses part of it to keep speaking the truth in this manner.

I know who the source is, but Tim Donaghy's statement to the effect that he came to understand that the NBA is an entertainment product first and a genuine athletic competition second is... there's actual truth to it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We need that energy in the NHL.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

There are different problems in different sports with officiating. The issue with the NBA is that it's like the NHL but without a "code".

In the NHL, you can call a penalty on almost every sequence of play. That's also true of the NBA, and to a large extent, the NFL. So a ton of importance is placed at the referee's discretion.

In the NHL, there is a "code" that is often referred to as "game management". This means that, outside of the rulebook, there are somewhat vague but generally understood "rules" for how things will be called. Has your team been on the power play three straight times? You know the refs will be looking to call something against you. Are you currently on the penalty kill? You're going to get a bit more leeway for infractions because the referees will be hesitant to award a 5-on-3. Is it late in a close game that has significant importance? You know that an infraction is going probably to have to be clear and obvious and important - i.e. denying or creating a scoring chance - to be called. In other words, the refs are manipulating outcomes, but in a way that we can see coming and generally aren't surprised by.

In the NBA, there is no well-known set of rules like that, for the most part. There are a few things - for example, referees will be hesitant to give a 2nd tech in most cases to avoid tossing a guy out of the game - but for the most part, it's just up to the referee in question what particular thing they have a bee in their bonnet about on a given night. In some games, an official will apparently decide, "I'm going to be really strict about traveling here". In others, they might give defenses a lot of leeway to be physical. In others, they might decide that they're going to only be strict about that physical defense when it's the team's "star player" getting hacked. As a result, officiating is incredibly random game to game.

Both sports have the benefit - unlike the NFL - that a single call, even if it's in the last few minutes, is not likely to be an overwhelming factor in deciding the game. But because playstyles vary so much from team to team in the NBA, a particular referee's approach to a game, even if it's applied equally to both teams over the course of four quarters, can make things much more difficult for one than the other depending on how that team plays. And of course, there are many situations where it's not applied equally to both teams over the course of the game because the ref decides that X player is complaining too much, or is doing something that ref finds objectionable (their particular method of handling the ball seems to that ref to be too close to carrying, or their post move involves movement of the plant foot that other officials would let go, etc.) or - as the Raptors will no doubt find out as the season goes on - they've been targeted for retribution by the referee cabal due to what Fred did last night.

It's the media that needs to deal with this stuff, because they're not beholden to the league. They cannot be fined, nor can they be targeted by the refs themselves. But the problem there is that the thin veneer of integrity that the league enjoys needs to be there for the media to continue to enjoy the attention of fans. If "this is all rigged anyway" is the attitude that fans start to have, it hits everyone in the wallet. And the wallet matters considerably more than the integrity of the sport, to literally everyone involved in it.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Fred’s getting fined quite a bit for this (NSFW language)

NSFW!

https://twitter.com/user/status/1633714288144646145

Love it, NBA refs love to take the game into their hands and are the most sensitive refs in sports.

Edit: wow, if he really got a tech for saying to his teammates “guys lets keep playing through this bull####” that is beyond weak. They got jobbed in the Denver game and last nights game the clippers were in the bonus all game. Its amazing they won a championship in this ref ball league. FIBA will always be superior when it comes to refs and the way the games are called. NBA has become a joke

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

There are different problems in different sports with officiating. The issue with the NBA is that it's like the NHL but without a "code".

In the NHL, you can call a penalty on almost every sequence of play. That's also true of the NBA, and to a large extent, the NFL. So a ton of importance is placed at the referee's discretion.

In the NHL, there is a "code" that is often referred to as "game management". This means that, outside of the rulebook, there are somewhat vague but generally understood "rules" for how things will be called. Has your team been on the power play three straight times? You know the refs will be looking to call something against you. Are you currently on the penalty kill? You're going to get a bit more leeway for infractions because the referees will be hesitant to award a 5-on-3. Is it late in a close game that has significant importance? You know that an infraction is going probably to have to be clear and obvious and important - i.e. denying or creating a scoring chance - to be called. In other words, the refs are manipulating outcomes, but in a way that we can see coming and generally aren't surprised by.

In the NBA, there is no well-known set of rules like that, for the most part. There are a few things - for example, referees will be hesitant to give a 2nd tech in most cases to avoid tossing a guy out of the game - but for the most part, it's just up to the referee in question what particular thing they have a bee in their bonnet about on a given night. In some games, an official will apparently decide, "I'm going to be really strict about traveling here". In others, they might give defenses a lot of leeway to be physical. In others, they might decide that they're going to only be strict about that physical defense when it's the team's "star player" getting hacked. As a result, officiating is incredibly random game to game.

Both sports have the benefit - unlike the NFL - that a single call, even if it's in the last few minutes, is not likely to be an overwhelming factor in deciding the game. But because playstyles vary so much from team to team in the NBA, a particular referee's approach to a game, even if it's applied equally to both teams over the course of four quarters, can make things much more difficult for one than the other depending on how that team plays. And of course, there are many situations where it's not applied equally to both teams over the course of the game because the ref decides that X player is complaining too much, or is doing something that ref finds objectionable (their particular method of handling the ball seems to that ref to be too close to carrying, or their post move involves movement of the plant foot that other officials would let go, etc.) or - as the Raptors will no doubt find out as the season goes on - they've been targeted for retribution by the referee cabal due to what Fred did last night.

It's the media that needs to deal with this stuff, because they're not beholden to the league. They cannot be fined, nor can they be targeted by the refs themselves. But the problem there is that the thin veneer of integrity that the league enjoys needs to be there for the media to continue to enjoy the attention of fans. If "this is all rigged anyway" is the attitude that fans start to have, it hits everyone in the wallet. And the wallet matters considerably more than the integrity of the sport, to literally everyone involved in it.

Let's not forget that the Flames suddenly went from one of the least penalized teams and after the Wideman incident we suddenly became the 1989 Pistons.

Accountability is lacking in sports for these scumbags.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

In the NBA, there is no well-known set of rules like that, for the most part. There are a few things - for example, referees will be hesitant to give a 2nd tech in most cases to avoid tossing a guy out of the game - but for the most part, it's just up to the referee in question what particular thing they have a bee in their bonnet about on a given night. In some games, an official will apparently decide, "I'm going to be really strict about traveling here". In others, they might give defenses a lot of leeway to be physical. In others, they might decide that they're going to only be strict about that physical defense when it's the team's "star player" getting hacked. As a result, officiating is incredibly random game to game.

My impression is that the NBA likes the fact that referees have predictable tendencies... this referee is more likely to call 50/50 calls in favour of the hometeam in certain situations. That referee is more likely to call travel on sloppy timing when starting a dribble. This referee tends to call 50/50 calls in favour of the trailing team. That referee has a really good relationship with star players, while this referee really gets under the skin of a certain type of player and isn't afraid to call a tech. Sometimes the consistency is inconsistency: call a physical game most of the night, and then tighten up the whistle late? The NBA will figure out which teams they think that benefits.

There are so many 50/50 calls in basketball, and knowing how a referee is likely to make those calls gives them a way to put their finger on the scale just a little in the playoffs, just through what referee is assigned to what game. Want to give the trailing team a leg up? Get Foster on the court. Want to tone down the physicality of a series? Guthrie's your guy. What's more, I think referees know that this is the nature of the game, and the regular season is essentially an audition for how they can be useful in the playoffs. Making bad calls isn't good for your reffing career, but having consistent tendencies that differ from other refs is.

[Mathgod]

Nuggets suddenly lose 4 straight despite everyone playing & healthy. Hmm...

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1636445135411253248

Should be fun.

[bluejays]

The refs are a "brotherhood" in any sport. You know he's not calling the fouls but some of his colleagues are itching to do so for the call out. It may not even be this game but they'll get him. Officiating in basketball is sketchy. David Stern's imprint is carrying on to this day.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by bluejays

The refs are a "brotherhood" in any sport. You know he's not calling the fouls but some of his colleagues are itching to do so for the call out. It may not even be this game but they'll get him. Officiating in basketball is sketchy. David Stern's imprint is carrying on to this day.

You need to watch the Netflix doc, dude.

Maybe it's different now? But I doubt it.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

You need to watch the Netflix doc, dude.

Maybe it's different now? But I doubt it.

I've probably seen it...which one? The Tim Donaghy one that came out last year was a rehash of what he previously said when he was first busted. Anyone can say he's a convicted criminal and just write him off but he went into enough detail and described what was going on where he didn't come across as boastful or lying. Sports are entertainment at it's core. The NBA specifically enjoys those close games where the star gets it and makes things happen. The NBA is rigged in trying to keep games competitive so the star player makes a name for himself. I get annoyed watching the product on some nights where it's blatant the refs are instructed to do a particular thing. After baseball home plate umps, basketball refs come close in incompetence.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If what they are saying is true why Wiggins is on a personal leave oh boy.