[Signing] Coyotes sign Valimaki to 1 year contract extension

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

and Scorp has watched him more than any of us.

The Flames screwed this up. I don't even think you can argue it now. It's just another player, and painfully another 1st, that got mis-utilized and in this case the organization lost him for nothing.

This is why the team has no success - stuff like this piles up across the different aspects of team building/management.

If the Flames screwed anything up, it was not keeping him over Mackey despite his play (he certainly hadn’t earned being kept). They gave him time, they gave him a lot of opportunity, he simply wasn’t good and was looking worse and worse as time went on. Andersson and Kylington were lower picks that did so much more with their opportunity, so you can’t even say this is some Flames issue.

As much as it sucks that it didn’t work, at some point you have to realize that the Flames aren’t special went it comes to prospects catching on with other teams. It’s life. It’s too bad. But it is what it is.

At this point, repeatedly using this as a reason to rant about the Flames is no better than the people trying to knock any praise of him. It doesn’t accomplish anything and it’s boring. If I was upset about this I would ask myself whether I’m looking at this situation fairly, or whether I’m looking for reasons to be upset.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If the Flames screwed anything up, it was not keeping him over Mackey despite his play (he certainly hadn’t earned being kept). They gave him time, they gave him a lot of opportunity, he simply wasn’t good and was looking worse and worse as time went on. Andersson and Kylington were lower picks that did so much more with their opportunity, so you can’t even say this is some Flames issue.

As much as it sucks that it didn’t work, at some point you have to realize that the Flames aren’t special went it comes to prospects catching on with other teams. It’s life. It’s too bad. But it is what it is.

At this point, repeatedly using this as a reason to rant about the Flames is no better than the people trying to knock any praise of him. It doesn’t accomplish anything and it’s boring. If I was upset about this I would ask myself whether I’m looking at this situation fairly, or whether I’m looking for reasons to be upset.

Pfft. Obviously we should have traded Hanifin for a buckletload of unprotected 1sts and deployed Valimaki 20 mins a night instead.

[TheScorpion]

yeah I wouldn't use my opinion as some authority to invalidate what other people have to say by any means. but the numbers across the board support that he's playing at a top-four level. good for him!

[timbit]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

yeah I wouldn't use my opinion as some authority to invalidate what other people have to say by any means. but the numbers across the board support that he's playing at a top-four level. good for him!

Yep.

Across the board he is a top 4 D on a bottom 3 team.

No question!

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Performing in a no pressure situation and performing in a pressure situation where there are expectations of results are two pretty different things

But good for him for establishing himself somewhere in the league

[Samonadreau]

2/3 of his points are secondary assists. And he has the teams worst takeaway to giveaway ratio. He could be a 2nd pairing guy on a bottom team in the league and probably a #7 maybe a #6 guy on a good team.

Again, happy for him. But pump the breaks on calling him a top 4 Dman.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by timbit

Yep.

Across the board he is a top 4 D on a bottom 3 team.

No question!

No across the board he's a top 2 D on a bottom 5 team. AZ actually outshoots and outscores their opponents relatively consistently with him on the ice, and he's been eating huge minutes. That AZ defence group is Valimaki, Moser, and then a bunch of nothing.

Plenty of good players on bad teams. And Juuso is a good player. That's it, that's all.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No across the board he's a top 2 D on a bottom 5 team. AZ actually outshoots and outscores their opponents relatively consistently with him on the ice, and he's been eating huge minutes. That AZ defence group is Valimaki, Moser, and then a bunch of nothing.

Plenty of good players on bad teams. And Juuso is a good player. That's it, that's all.

I think Valimaki is a decent player right now. Based on his play in pre-season and last year, he wasn't when he was waived.

The thing we keep overlooking is that players develop differently in different situations. Every coach has players he doesn't like, and they get used less as a result. I don't think Valimaki would've taken the next step here, because he was too afraid to make a mistake under Daryl.

Arizona was the perfect situation for a player that was inside his own head, by letting him play care free hockey. Their investment was letting him make mistakes and learn from them. Calgary wasn't in a position to let him do that, they would've let him make those mistakes in 2019-20, but his offseason injury made it impossible.

[TheScorpion]

^ Agreed completely. In zero way do I think Juuso would find his current level of success on these Flames, nor do I really care about the loss from a Flames standpoint. I don't understand all the defensiveness about it, like any acknowledgment of Juuso doing well is somehow a slight against the Flames. He's revived his career and is in a position to snag a pay increase two summers from now if he continues at this level. It's just a feel-good story.

[Strange Brew]

Some people seem to rejoice when an ex Flame does well. Other people just can’t seem to handle it.

But calling him top 2 on the Coyotes is only because they traded all their defensemen while they continue to perpetually tank. Let’s see how he plays in a competitive situation.

[TheScorpion]

I would've had him pretty close with Gostisbehere in terms of overall impact when they were both there. Both solidly behind Chychrun, of course.

Thing with Juuso — people have touched upon it in this thread — is he's performed significantly better with more minutes. He's a natural on a power play unit.

I think it's wildly premature to anoint him a future star. I still don't quite understand how he gets into the right spots with his skating, but he's really made it work this year. I'm just stoked for him to be playing in such a big role.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

No across the board he's a top 2 D on a bottom 5 team. AZ actually outshoots and outscores their opponents relatively consistently with him on the ice, and he's been eating huge minutes. That AZ defence group is Valimaki, Moser, and then a bunch of nothing.

Plenty of good players on bad teams. And Juuso is a good player. That's it, that's all.

Really premature to just outright declare this

Comes off as flexing on the board based on a limited sample size in a zero pressure situation

[TheScorpion]

you'd think if it was so easy to play well in a zero pressure situation, everybody would do it

"flexing on the board"?

[Sandman]

Whether he’s good now or not is basically irrelevant- he was absolute DOG S**T in his showings this year in the preseason (looked like an ECHL castoff), and he wasn’t worlds better the previous 2 years. A decision had to be made. Now, he’s in a low-pressure situation in a city where nobody cares. I don’t know if you win anything with a guy like that.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

and Scorp has watched him more than any of us.

The Flames screwed this up. I don't even think you can argue it now. It's just another player, and painfully another 1st, that got mis-utilized and in this case the organization lost him for nothing.

This is why the team has no success - stuff like this piles up across the different aspects of team building/management.

When Valimaki was in the AHL Scorp said Valimaki wasn't an NHL player and didn't have the boots for the NHL. Now all of a sudden he's a top four dmen in the NHL? Interesting 🤔.

[GioforPM]

Numbers are what he gets on that team. The only way you can say Val is top 4 across the league is to look at the teams and ID which top 4 Dman he ousts from that spot. Here - is he better than Tanev/Hanifin/Weegar/Rasmus? Nah.

[Bingo]

The greatest and well the worst thing about CP is that this topic added 4 more pages in the last couple of days!

[boogerz]

It doesn't matter if Valimaki is in a "no pressure" situation or would be a bottom pairing dman on many teams in the league. The fact is that he's producing and putting up good underlying defensive stats while playing second pairing (now first pairing) ES minutes in the NHL. That's no small feat for any dman.

Congrats to him. No need for everyone to be so bitter that Sutter didn't like the kid.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by boogerz

It doesn't matter if Valimaki is in a "no pressure" situation or would be a bottom pairing dman on many teams in the league. The fact is that he's producing and putting up good underlying defensive stats while playing second pairing (now first pairing) ES minutes in the NHL. That's no small feat for any dman.

Congrats to him. No need for everyone to be so bitter that Sutter didn't like the kid.

All true and the fact of the matter is, Valimaki is not a finished product.

[Bingo]

So we're all now saying that despite Valimaki coming off two major surgeries, struggling mightily last year, getting sent to the AHL and slipping down the depth chart to AHL #6, and then looking completely lost in training camp we would have been smarter than the NHL coach with two cup rings and kept him because we knew he'd turn it around on the worst team in the NHL with zero pressure?

It wasn't Sutter being a ######.

He was awful.