2023 NHL Draft Thread

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think that's where the over-hype is.
The deeper you go in any draft the more they normalize. So for instance, there is no way a pick in the 40s is a good as a pick in the 20s of a normal draft. That doesn't mean there won't be good players there, because there will be.

By the time you get into the late 1st and early 2nd, a pick there might be 2-4 slots better than normal, and then it will normalize further as you go on.

Again, its a good draft for the following reasons:
- Incredible #1 overall pick. Potential generational
- Another 3 guys that would go first overall most years
- Another tier of about 10 guys that are better than most years.

It's not about the depth. It's about the guys available in the first half of the first round.

Interesting. I don't know much about the draft but I like to read about it here and there, beyond the consensus top four picks.

I ask this question out of pure curiosity. Would you trade the 2023 2nd round pick for Filip Mesar straight up? Or either of the players taken immediately before or after? (Mesar is who the Canadiens took with the Toffoli 1st rounder from last year).

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Interesting. I don't know much about the draft but I like to read about it here and there, beyond the consensus top four picks.

I ask this question out of pure curiosity. Would you trade the 2023 2nd round pick for Filip Mesar straight up? Or either of the players taken immediately before or after? (Mesar is who the Canadiens took with the Toffoli 1st rounder from last year).

Ummm that's a good question. I don't know the player well enough to be honest, but I would say maybe. I would probably trade the pick for Owen Beck who went #33 also to montreal. There's a few other guys in that range I quite liked including Jagger Firkus who has tremendous upside, Ryan Chesley, and of course you've got the home run swing at Brad Lambert at #30 but boy something is off with that kid.

So yeah there are some I would swap the pick for, assuming that pick is 40+

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Depends on what you do with the pick I guess.

I wanted Zary in that grouping and was rattled when they traded down twice ... but then pleasantly surprised to get him anyway.

Adding Poirier is a good piece of business.

And I think people are a little more high on Boltmann now too no? Not emerging prospect level, but less of a wasted pick level?

It’s true but to me 3rd round players with warts aren’t enough for me to miss out on the bigger names with less warts this year even that year. Right handed players with offensive ceilings like mercer had or forester had or even the 2way promise Schneider had were tough to overlook. If anything I trade up for the second to get closer to t the back end of the first.

Boltman is a plain pick and has limited offensive upside. He could top out as a solid fourth dman as a ceiling and sixth/seventh dman as a floor. Not really anything you can’t pick up cheaper than a 3rd like Luke Schenn who cost a late 3rd, floating around the fringes of the league. IMO an offensive ceiling lottery ticket is better than a common floor that is easily obtained. Unless boltman turns into Rhett Warrener we don’t have anything to get excited about. His scouting th report doesn’t really inspire much of it’s me. I think kuznetsov is a better prospect mind you he was a second. But still I’d swing for offensive upside.

Poirier is a decent bit of business as you say but his defensive game has a long way to go to defend at the nhl level and his offense isn’t Cale Makar like. So really we have a lot of development left with him. He’s not physical and he will struggle at the pro level with his coverage. Think a worse Noah hanifin. He has his warts but no prospect evaluator is saying things are on the up with him. His recent benchings confirm the sentiments if anything. I hope all the prospects do well but to play at the highest level you have to be very competent physically as a dman unless your offence is top tier. He falls into neither category. This to me the risk wasn’t worth the reward but I’m not a decision maker.

I banged the table for the flames to move up to draft kopitar and the same for scheifle to no avail. All we have are these outlets it’s ride or die with our teams decision makers. I’m almost ready for Todd button to move on. The gaudreau pick was good. Tachuck felll into our laps. Coronato looks good but could leave. Anderson was good. Ruzicka is still a project.

This team needs more size skill and pp threats. No more little dudes although I like Pelletier but at the back end of the first round it’s tough to find studs. Coronato will have to justify the Bison namesake at the highest level but I do believe his scoring instincts will thrive in the league. Maybe he’s a joe Mullen type ?

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Poirier is a decent bit of business as you say but his defensive game has a long way to go to defend at the nhl level and his offense isn’t Cale Makar like. So really we have a lot of development left with him. He’s not physical and he will struggle at the pro level with his coverage. Think a worse Noah hanifin. He has his warts but no prospect evaluator is saying things are on the up with him. His recent benchings confirm the sentiments if anything. I hope all the prospects do well but to play at the highest level you have to be very competent physically as a dman unless your offence is top tier. He falls into neither category. This to me the risk wasn’t worth the reward but I’m not a decision maker.
?

As someone who’s been to and watched a large chunk of the Wranlers this year I’d say you’re analysis of Porier is a bit off/harsh.

First he’s already playing “pro” this is his first year and he leads the D on the Wranglers with 36pts in 51 games. He’s #1 Rookie defensemen with over 10 more points than highly touted D like Jiricek, Edvinsson and Nemec and currently in 6th for all D in the AHL.

His pro game has actually been quite good, he’s +4 so far from the “defensively inept” that some have judged him as. Could it use some work? Sure, but he’s the most offensively gifted D man we’ve seen since probably Dion.

The guy is gifted offensively, he’s very shifty and has great hands, huge bonus for being quite good in the shootout too.

If you get a chance, go take in a game and watch him live, I’m confident you’d be pleasantly surprised how good he looks.
I have high hopes for him, I thought he looked good last rookie camp and even into the pro group so here’s hoping he turns into a good PP quarterback/offensive threat we desperately need.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Royle9

As someone who’s been to and watched a large chunk of the Wranlers this year I’d say you’re analysis of Porier is a bit off/harsh.

First he’s already playing “pro” this is his first year and he leads the D on the Wranglers with 36pts in 51 games. He’s #1 Rookie defensemen with over 10 more points than highly touted D like Jiricek, Edvinsson and Nemec and currently in 6th for all D in the AHL.

His pro game has actually been quite good, he’s +4 so far from the “defensively inept” that some have judged him as. Could it use some work? Sure, but he’s the most offensively gifted D man we’ve seen since probably Dion.

The guy is gifted offensively, he’s very shifty and has great hands, huge bonus for being quite good in the shootout too.

If you get a chance, go take in a game and watch him live, I’m confident you’d be pleasantly surprised how good he looks.
I have high hopes for him, I thought he looked good last rookie camp and even into the pro group so here’s hoping he turns into a good PP quarterback/offensive threat we desperately need.

I saw one game. He was a disaster in his own end. He’s improved from what I saw in the Q of him. He still is being irresponsible with his coverage. There are many dmen in the ahl that can score at that level but don’t get looks in the show because they can’t defend worth a lick. He’s got hands yes. His shot is ok. To me though he’s a product of a strong team with a lot of scoring depth. He didn’t do much on the PPs I watched.

Yes he is a decent or above average prospect with offensive abilities yet I don’t see the defending as being a strength or even average at this point. Mind you kyllington was accused of similar criticisms. However kyllington was an elite skater and was able to use that to be effective in his transistion and dzone coverage.

I hope poirier makes me look foolish and he becomes valuable. My point was that, after seeing Zary, I would have rather picked mercer or Schneider or even forester due to the rarity of their right handed ness and their size. Zary and porier don’t scream game breaking options. Although I will say that poirier could be a pp contributor as a ceiling if he figures out his coverage and strength issues.

I like Zary tho but I don’t think he’s a game breaker. I think he’s a player probably second liner center or third line center depending on chemistry with line mates. Forester could be a lethal shooting option with size. Schnieder is already looking like a solid top four two way dman. And mercer looks like a strong offensive player with size and shoots right and plays in the show.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

I saw one game. He was a disaster in his own end. He’s improved from what I saw in the Q of him. He still is being irresponsible with his coverage. There are many dmen in the ahl that can score at that level but don’t get looks in the show because they can’t defend worth a lick. He’s got hands yes. His shot is ok. To me though he’s a product of a strong team with a lot of scoring depth. He didn’t do much on the PPs I watched.

Yes he is a decent or above average prospect with offensive abilities yet I don’t see the defending as being a strength or even average at this point. Mind you kyllington was accused of similar criticisms. However kyllington was an elite skater and was able to use that to be effective in his transistion and dzone coverage.

I hope poirier makes me look foolish and he becomes valuable. My point was that, after seeing Zary, I would have rather picked mercer or Schneider or even forester due to the rarity of their right handed ness and their size. Zary and porier don’t scream game breaking options. Although I will say that poirier could be a pp contributor as a ceiling if he figures out his coverage and strength issues.

I like Zary tho but I don’t think he’s a game breaker. I think he’s a player probably second liner center or third line center depending on chemistry with line mates. Forester could be a lethal shooting option with size. Schnieder is already looking like a solid top four two way dman. And mercer looks like a strong offensive player with size and shoots right and plays in the show.

Zary lost some valuable development time but I think he's trending pretty good, and unless I'm missing something we had no shot at Mercer anyway.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Zary lost some valuable development time but I think he's trending pretty good, and unless I'm missing something we had no shot at Mercer anyway.

Yup. Like complaining about not picking Draisaitl instead of Bennett

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Poirier is a decent bit of business as you say but his defensive game has a long way to go to defend at the nhl level and his offense isn’t Cale Makar like. So really we have a lot of development left with him. He’s not physical and he will struggle at the pro level with his coverage. Think a worse Noah hanifin. He has his warts but no prospect evaluator is saying things are on the up with him. His recent benchings confirm the sentiments if anything. I hope all the prospects do well but to play at the highest level you have to be very competent physically as a dman unless your offence is top tier. He falls into neither category. This to me the risk wasn’t worth the reward but I’m not a decision maker.

This sounds like something i said in 2011 about TJ Brodie. He was pretty yucky defensively too although a better skater than Poirier. Needs to marinate i figure before we have a clue.

[PepsiFree]

I suddenly had the urge to go down the rabbit hole of past Flames picks that had some hype to them but eventually vanished into nothing and… wow… that was more depressing than I thought.

From wondering what Parsons is up to this year after bailing on the team, to Irving unsuccesfully slogging away in Europe, to Howse becoming a scout for some minor minor league team, to Chucko becoming a banker…

Being a draft pick that doesn’t meet expectations must be a weird life.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I suddenly had the urge to go down the rabbit hole of past Flames picks that had some hype to them but eventually vanished into nothing and… wow… that was more depressing than I thought.

From wondering what Parsons is up to this year after bailing on the team, to Irving unsuccesfully slogging away in Europe, to Howse becoming a scout for some minor minor league team, to Chucko becoming a banker…

Being a draft pick that doesn’t meet expectations must be a weird life.

The goalie picks in the last decade have been very very dire. Hopefully Wolf can turn that around. The most impactful position and the Flames have not been able to develop a long consistent starter from the draft. Mason Mcdonald and Tyler Parsons were not even close to making it to the show. Wolf seems like he will at least get to the big club. Which for this franchise is a big deal considering the history of drafted goalies by the Flames in the 21st century.

[devo22]

Parsons looked like such a shrewd pick for a while too. You just never know.

EDIT: just had a look, CP voted him our number 2 prospect in the summer of 2017. Ahead of Andersson, Kylington, Fox, Dube, Mangiapane and so on. Just crazy how all of that played out.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by devo22

Parsons looked like such a shrewd pick for a while too. You just never know.

EDIT: just had a look, CP voted him our number 2 prospect in the summer of 2017. Ahead of Andersson, Kylington, Fox, Dube, Mangiapane and so on. Just crazy how all of that played out.

Yup, i even remember paying to watch him in the OHL playoffs in 2017. Looked like an absolute stud in London. Obviously he had his own personal issues so who knows what could’ve been with him. I definitely thought the Flames had a starter in Parsons. Only 28 games played in the AHL is pretty jarring considering his hype from junior.

[PepsiFree]

It’s depressing from the Flames’ perspective, but even more so from the player’s perspective. Though who knows, maybe these guys were just happy to be there and life is what you make it kind of thing, but to be that close and in some cases have your entire pro hockey career (not just the NHL dream) be done before you’re 25? Wild.

Parsons does stick out as one that is a complete head-scratcher. I know he dealt with quite a few personal issues and had injuries on top of it, but then to just give up and vanish… crazy.

[dammage79]

I feel bad for Parsons. His was straight up mental health mote than the physical injuries. I just hope he finds a good life.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s depressing from the Flames’ perspective, but even more so from the player’s perspective. Though who knows, maybe these guys were just happy to be there and life is what you make it kind of thing, but to be that close and in some cases have your entire pro hockey career (not just the NHL dream) be done before you’re 25? Wild.

Parsons does stick out as one that is a complete head-scratcher. I know he dealt with quite a few personal issues and had injuries on top of it, but then to just give up and vanish… crazy.

I know he had mental health struggles correct? Also was a anti vaxxer so essentially killed his NHL dream because of a needle.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I feel bad for Parsons. His was straight up mental health mote than the physical injuries. I just hope he finds a good life.

One contributes to the other for sure.

His concussion played into the mental health issues, injuries and other issues also contribute to the anxiety and depression.

I had a friend that played NCAA hockey and the injuries (and often treatment with pain killers) really did a number on his mental health and led to depression and anxiety for sure.

It really is something I worry about at times in junior sports like football and hockey. The professionals have the best treatment in the world to help deal with injuries and concussions and they still have issues.

Those guys playing junior or college sports don't always have the same treatment paths and support systems and it can be just as impactful for them. Concussion treatment and pain killer dependence really can be scary for some of these athletes.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s depressing from the Flames’ perspective, but even more so from the player’s perspective. Though who knows, maybe these guys were just happy to be there and life is what you make it kind of thing, but to be that close and in some cases have your entire pro hockey career (not just the NHL dream) be done before you’re 25? Wild.

Parsons does stick out as one that is a complete head-scratcher. I know he dealt with quite a few personal issues and had injuries on top of it, but then to just give up and vanish… crazy.

Yup it is very sad. Even more sad is what he said in this article with Ryan Pike 4 years ago.

“I’m still 20, I’m turning 21 this month,” said Parsons. “I’m still young. I’ve got a lot of time to develop and I’ve got a lot of things to learn. Goaltending is a tough game, it’s very high pressure and it’s a tough mental game. Just like I said, just working on my game every day, competing and working hard, and good things will happen.”

Depressing to read

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Freeway

When in doubt, Flames tend to favour centres and blueliners.

Went back a few years to see if this was true.

I looked at all draft since Brad Treliving was the GM.
I used HockeyDB for positions, so it won't be completely accurate (Matty Phillips is listed in HockeyDB as a C, for example)

from 2014-2022:
54 players selected. Of those players selected:

17 were Centers
18 were Wingers
14 were Defensemen
5 were Goaltenders

It's all very close together, and probably doesn't say much toward team bias, but for just raw draft picks the Flames have selected wings, then centers, then defensemen, with goalies naturally bringing up the rear.

It appears there is no bias at all given the sample size. Going back further may change the percentages, but I wanted to limit the sample to drafts made under the current front office.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Hockey-and_stuff

Went back a few years to see if this was true.

I looked at all draft since Brad Treliving was the GM.
I used HockeyDB for positions, so it won't be completely accurate (Matty Phillips is listed in HockeyDB as a C, for example)

from 2014-2022:
54 players selected. Of those players selected:

17 were Centers
18 were Wingers
14 were Defensemen
5 were Goaltenders

It's all very close together, and probably doesn't say much toward team bias, but for just raw draft picks the Flames have selected wings, then centers, then defensemen, with goalies naturally bringing up the rear.

It appears there is no bias at all given the sample size. Going back further may change the percentages, but I wanted to limit the sample to drafts made under the current front office.

What would interest me is what positions they are picking with 1st rounders.

Obviously, you take BPA. But when there are options, I would favour Cs in the first round, Ds in the 2nd round, and wide open the rest of the way. With one random goalie at least every other year.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What would interest me is what positions they are picking with 1st rounders.

Obviously, you take BPA. But when there are options, I would favour Cs in the first round, Ds in the 2nd round, and wide open the rest of the way. With one random goalie at least every other year.

This is pretty much what they have been doing, for the most part. BPA always should factor in though