No it was never like that even ten years ago. They used to have pretty strict enforcement of anti loitering laws and would remove and fine anyone without a valid pass. When I was growing up and in my early twenties, I would get stopped frequently and asked for proof of fare.
Once again, I don't know what the correct solution is here and whether going back to strict enforcement can actually accomplish anything. But you can full on smoke crack in the open now and transit authority will let you be.
While it doesn't solve the underlying addiction issues it at least accomplishes removing it from transit stations. That should make transit feel more safe for more patrons and probably would increase ridership. Sometimes in these threads there's an undertone that the only issue that needs addressing here is the addiction issues and homelessness and that the public needs to somehow experience it in their daily lives too until that's solved. No, the safety of the public should be on the table here, and while we might not have an end-to-end solution for the addiction and homelessness, we certainly do have a solution for the public safety issues and we should be implementing it.
Last edited by Cowboy89; 02-20-2023 at 01:16 PM.
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I remember when being asked for fare proof whilst sitting at the stations was a normal occurrence
Just got cut from the budget with the increase in stations/real estate to patrol? Is the logic that allowing the train routes to be a neglected congregating space helps to keep that activity out of neighborhoods?
I haven't had issues but my gf was followed by someone who was high in the station when she was traveling alone from work.
Last edited by TrentCrimmIndependent; 02-20-2023 at 01:25 PM.
Probably covered in this thread already but im curious to know what factors went in to such an abrupt uptick
How are more people getting introduced to these hard drugs as opposed to before. Is it the availability of marijuana with its legalization is causing people to look at experimenting with harder drugs as pot (and its effects) are normalized?
Evidently much of this coincided with covid. Inflation and costs of living have probably put more into poverty where they are susceptible to ending up in these situations, but I think that's more of a gradual effect. What we're seeing appears rather accelerated.
I think it's just that any drug you take now that's in pill or powder form (molly, cocaine, meth, whatever) is just super powerful or tainted. So if you're doing any of the above you're getting exposed to some pretty addictive and potent blends. There are other factors of course but anything in powder form these days has the risk of taking you for a ride.
Probably covered in this thread already but im curious to know what factors went in to such an abrupt uptick
How are more people getting introduced to these hard drugs as opposed to before. Is it the availability of marijuana with its legalization is causing people to look at experimenting with harder drugs as pot (and its effects) are normalized?
Evidently much of this coincided with covid. Inflation and costs of living have probably put more into poverty where they are susceptible to ending up in these situations, but I think that's more of a gradual effect. What we're seeing appears rather accelerated.
Costs of living and easier access to drugs are definitely factors. We've seen an abrupt increase in the cost of living post COVID, but that pressure has been building for quite a while.
If you're someone on the edge, with little support, it's pretty easy to just give in. If you're trying to get by on a minimal salary and/or you have other factors working against you (ex mental health, history of abuse, lack of support from family, etc), staying afloat is just harder these days. Everyone's been knocked down a few notches on the socio-economic ladder. If you didn't have the luck to be born high in the first place, it doesn't take much to fall off. Plus society is really making it difficult for anyone to achieve any kind of social mobility.
I don't see this getting any better soon.
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If anything I'm surprised the problem isn't worse. Look at rental prices and imagine being in your mid to early 20's right now, I'm amazed at how many people are still getting by
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I remember when being asked for fare proof whilst sitting at the stations was a normal occurrence
Just got cut from the budget with the increase in stations/real estate to patrol? Is the logic that allowing the train routes to be a neglected congregating space helps to keep that activity out of neighborhoods?
I haven't had issues but my gf was followed by someone who was high in the station when she was traveling alone from work.
I think it’s purely the addictive mess of fentanyl combined with the crackdown on Oxy. Oxy became harder to get pushing people to more powerful street drugs which also got more addictive with the transition from heroin to fentanyl.
I don’t have any sourcing for this but it seems plausible that this would drive it.
The other thing is that people on the street had the streets and transit to themselves for much of Covid as there were less houses people using public spaces especially transit. So what use to be unacceptable behaviours that were essentially policed by people being around became acceptable as less people were there to object
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If anything I'm surprised the problem isn't worse. Look at rental prices and imagine being in your mid to early 20's right now, I'm amazed at how many people are still getting by
A lot of young adults just live at home now. This creates it's own slew of issues, as you have a bunch of people entering the workforce with zero life skills/experience.
I think it’s purely the addictive mess of fentanyl combined with the crackdown on Oxy. Oxy became harder to get pushing people to more powerful street drugs which also got more addictive with the transition from heroin to fentanyl.
I don’t have any sourcing for this but it seems plausible that this would drive it.
The other thing is that people on the street had the streets and transit to themselves for much of Covid as there were less houses people using public spaces especially transit. So what use to be unacceptable behaviours that were essentially policed by people being around became acceptable as less people were there to object
In Vancouver, I know that they used to clear the streets out every morning to sweep them. They've now stopped that practice, and there are far more semi permanent homes on the street.
This may just be an issue of existing suffering being more visible. However, based on the vastly increasing amounts of deaths post COVID, the overall problem is getting worse.
Interesting posting in the Windsor Ontario sub on Reddit about problems for people living around the Downtown Mission. Cities everywhere need to stop ignoring these societal problems. Maybe siphon some cash out of the outrageous police budgets!
Interesting posting in the Windsor Ontario sub on Reddit about problems for people living around the Downtown Mission. Cities everywhere need to stop ignoring these societal problems. Maybe siphon some cash out of the outrageous police budgets!
Not gonna touch the Police Budget thing, but frankly, and I think this was mentioned many, many, maaaaany pages back...I dont think the Cities can.
If a City takes a stand or a hard line the problem will just literally migrate. I think it has to be a National initiative.
Furthermore, we as a society seem to have taken the stance that 'doing something about it' and that translates into almost anything, then its an affront to God-Given freedoms.
Somehow society has become convinced that the solution is to ignore the problem...out of compassion.
Legalize the drugs. Allow open drug use in public. Let people camp wherever they want. Clean up after them.
If a society imposes any stricter measures they're Draconian, if that same society does nothing they're monsters.
Its no wonder people have taken to just trying to pretend the problem doesnt exist. Its not even a matter of being unable to please everyone...it seems impossible to please anyone.
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If only there were some sort of system whereby the most financially successful individuals and corporations could pay their fair share into a collective and then we could use that money to fund a proper social safety net and redistribute the obscene wealth to the less fortunate.
Unfortunately since such a thing doesn’t exist, we’ll have to continue to hope that the problem solves itself via ODs and exposure to the elements. We could also rely on the police to at least herd them all into the low income areas where they belong.
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Interesting posting in the Windsor Ontario sub on Reddit about problems for people living around the Downtown Mission. Cities everywhere need to stop ignoring these societal problems. Maybe siphon some cash out of the outrageous police budgets!
Crime spiralling out of control following relocation of Downtown Mission, according to nearby residents
Downtown Mission executive director Rukshini Ponniah-Goulin says they are well aware of the problem and have hired additional security guards. She says they lack the resources to do more.
I didn't want to take this route, but I've tried everything else, contacted anyone in a position of power emailed every news outlet.... I'm posting here to attempt to get some visibility on these issues.
0:00 Screaming
0:19 More Screaming
1:16 Tweaking/Arguing
2:11 Guy tried to break into backyard
2:45 More Screaming
3:09 Open substance use/ dealing
3:20 Even More Screaming
3:48 Substance users argue with Downtown Mission Security
5:20 More screaming across from my house
7:04 Open Substance Use
7:19 Open Substance use at night
7:30 Substance use and arguing
7:41 Tweaking and yelling
8:12 Screaming Continued
8:31 Drug Dealing
8:45 Passed out Substance user awakened and left by Police
12:23 Known Thief and Substance User steals Halloween decorations
13:01 Open drug dealing
13:19 other resident of the block confronts Substance users who were on her porch
13:43 Random person rings my doorbell before going to the mission
14:02 Man screaming walking down road
14:30 Another man arguing while walking past
14:53 Substance user tweaks
15:26 Man shouts at everyone while walking the block
15:45 known Substance user shouts racial and homophobic slurs while walking past
16:04 same known Substance user still screaming new day
16:25 same known Substance user part 3 another day
16:41 screaming woman is back again
17:06 tweaking man hits local business with metal bar ( same day they had their window smashed )
18:44 man tried to break into my house thru basement side window
19:36 yelling and Police chase that started at or near the mission going wrong way down a one way
20:01 woman yelling and not wearing pants or underwear
20:24 more tweaking
20:44 more tweaking new person later the same day
21:14 more open Substance use
21:35 fight in the middle of the road Police respond
26:29 suspect chased onto my property and arrested while woman screams at him
0:00 Guy tries to break into my truck
1:19 guy comes onto our property
2:04 guy stops and checks cars
2:28 another guy checking cars
2:54 drug dealing
3:40 man yelling and begging for drugs
4:39 two people smashing stuff across the street before going to the mission
5:56 two groups smoking some substance under blankets to hide
6:19 guy tweaking across the street
6:28 same guy checking cars
7:33 another person checking cars
8:14 woman screaming and running into street
11:02 drug deal gone bad. man yelling "GIVE MY DRUGS BACK"
13:00 guy caught by one of my neighbours trying to get into his house takes off through my yard.
13:37 kids walking home from grade school past people smoking some substance
14:28 guy barks and swears at my neighbours very young daughter who is just out of view on their porch.
Costs of living and easier access to drugs are definitely factors. We've seen an abrupt increase in the cost of living post COVID, but that pressure has been building for quite a while.
If you're someone on the edge, with little support, it's pretty easy to just give in. If you're trying to get by on a minimal salary and/or you have other factors working against you (ex mental health, history of abuse, lack of support from family, etc), staying afloat is just harder these days. Everyone's been knocked down a few notches on the socio-economic ladder. If you didn't have the luck to be born high in the first place, it doesn't take much to fall off. Plus society is really making it difficult for anyone to achieve any kind of social mobility.
I don't see this getting any better soon.
Thank you your post. Very informative.
Wondering if you could clarify what you mean here, are you talking about transportation?
A lot of young adults just live at home now. This creates it's own slew of issues, as you have a bunch of people entering the workforce with zero life skills/experience.
One way or another they'll figure those things out, because they will have to
It's not a terrible thing in this economic climate, to have that launching pad until they find job security and build financial independence
The alternative is what you yourself described above, where you have young people scraping by and resorting to drugs to cope with pressures
Tuition is more expensive and young people are starting out in a deeper hole than ever, with mental health issues being more prevalent post-covid with the hit people took to their social connections
The challenge is us boomers, gen-x and millennials resisting the easy route of judging them harshly for doing what they need to to get off the ground
Last edited by TrentCrimmIndependent; 02-20-2023 at 09:20 PM.
Wondering if you could clarify what you mean here, are you talking about transportation?
It's a discussion in itself, but there are a lot of economic factors holding people down.
To illustrate this point, I've brought this example up in another thread.
I worked for a lawyer who used his first paycheck as a down payment on the strip mall his office is in. That strip mall, with no major renovations done, is now worth eight figures. Working as a lawyer now, it would take me a lifetime and all my resources to put a down payment on a place like that.
There was a time when working 9-5 in pretty much any field would guarantee you home ownership somewhere. The cost of living, capital, labor, etc is out of control. There are shortages of so many basic goods and so many people living paycheck to paycheck.
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It's a discussion in itself, but there are a lot of economic factors holding people down.
To illustrate this point, I've brought this example up in another thread.
I worked for a lawyer who used his first paycheck as a down payment on the strip mall his office is in. That strip mall, with no major renovations done, is now worth eight figures. Working as a lawyer now, it would take me a lifetime and all my resources to put a down payment on a place like that.
There was a time when working 9-5 in pretty much any field would guarantee you home ownership somewhere. The cost of living, capital, labor, etc is out of control. There are shortages of so many basic goods and so many people living paycheck to paycheck.
It's really sad that the same full time work salary that alotted people ownership decades ago only earns people a shared rental cost of a small-moderate sized apartment now
I know some people struggling and seeing them mentally "break" and resign to their precarious living situations is kind of heartbreaking to witness
In order for them to break ground and do the things they need to get in a better situation, they first need the mental faculties and fortitude to believe they can and take action
There are some truly defeated people out there that are only 25-30 with life ahead of them that can't see it
Honestly, measures need to be taken to reduce the poverty gap thats building. And the government throwing 50 bucks at select qualifying individuals for groceries or electricity isn't going to cut it
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If only there were some sort of system whereby the most financially successful individuals and corporations could pay their fair share into a collective and then we could use that money to fund a proper social safety net and redistribute the obscene wealth to the less fortunate.
Unfortunately since such a thing doesn’t exist, we’ll have to continue to hope that the problem solves itself via ODs and exposure to the elements. We could also rely on the police to at least herd them all into the low income areas where they belong.
Well the thing is, I'm completely in favour of all those things. We should fund a these things and alleviate the problem. But, that's a longterm fix and we have a short term issue that has to be addressed as well. And frankly, the ways to deal with that are more draconian and unpleasant.
If only we had all the money in the world we could solve all of the ills.
I'm pretty sure your joking, but I don't think that's true and its an interesting thought experiment. IMO there isn't an obvious solution here that we could just apply money to and it would solve the problem.
I'm pretty sure your joking, but I don't think that's true and its an interesting thought experiment. IMO there isn't an obvious solution here that we could just apply money to and it would solve the problem.
That was sort of the point of my comment.
I mean, a flippant remark about taxing the wealthy will eliminate drug addiction and homelessness doesnt really hit the mark.
I was going to make a pithy 'Mo' Money, Mo' Problems' remark, but thats not particularly useful either.
I've said it numerous times, this isnt necessarily a problem that you can throw money at and expect it to magically vanish.
Sure, more funding might move the needle farther in the direction we'd desire, but that doesnt really address many of the fundamental underlying issues.
The 'Great Equalizer' that is Taxes is probably not the tool best suited for this particular task, especially in light of the seeming evidence that its a problem that nobody can agree upon a strategy to tackle.
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