getting a little tired of the crack/meth heads

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I don’t know why you do or don’t feel scared. It’s irrelevant.

Fact is, if there are younger kids, younger men and / or women that don’t feel safe, then we have a problem.

Nobody cares how you feel. Can you think how some others, younger or with disabilities might feel? My cousin is older and a decent size guy, but is challenged mentally. Unfortunately he does not feel safe taking public transit.

There is a problem, just because you don’t have a problem with it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

But is this backed up by anything other than perception?

[GGG]

I do think police should harass addicts out of c-train stations and allow them to loiter in other areas. You won’t solve the problem with policing but you certainly can move it.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Wormius

But is this backed up by anything other than perception?

I guess you could question OP if you don’t believe him?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’m not sure this is in response to me or not but I think you have it backwards.

In a society where a meth head assaults a random stranger and people assault strangers they meet in bars I am far more concerned about the more common occurrence and that affect on the people I care about.

What are all these “random” bar attacks you keep referring too ! Two drunks fighting in a bar is not the same as someone pushing a random civilian onto the LRT tracks or jumping onto their vehicles and going into their business harassing the staff

Plus - going to bar you assume some level of “risk” . (And by bars I assume you mean clubs ) You know there will be drunks and there is some chance of a drunk being an ass . And most establishments do their best to ensure this doesn’t happen as it drives clientele away and they go bankrupt.

People getting assaulted by drug addicts aren’t going into drug dens and getting yelled at and assaulted there - they are children coming home from school and people waiting to go home from work

I have the same opinion of a violent drunk harassing / threatening these people in public as I do a crackhead . They can be treated the exact same - completely unacceptable and to be removed from society

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GGG

I do think police should harass addicts out of c-train stations and allow them to loiter in other areas. You won’t solve the problem with policing but you certainly can move it.

Honestly I am a bit surprised that this isn't a thing. They've done this with problem areas of the city. I haven't spent much time around Crack macs the past few years but pre-covid they'd managed to convert that corner to being basically a ghost town for anyone who might bother anyone just with constant police presence. If the assumption was that you couldn't do this stuff on the Ctrain or in the stations because CPS would be all over you in minutes it might at least make transit seem less scary to people. I've heard from a ton of people over the last year who won't ride the c train anymore.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Honestly I am a bit surprised that this isn't a thing. They've done this with problem areas of the city. I haven't spent much time around Crack macs the past few years but pre-covid they'd managed to convert that corner to being basically a ghost town for anyone who might bother anyone just with constant police presence. If the assumption was that you couldn't do this stuff on the Ctrain or in the stations because CPS would be all over you in minutes it might at least make transit seem less scary to people. I've heard from a ton of people over the last year who won't ride the c train anymore.

I agree with this. We as a society have spent billions and billions of dollars building electrified mass transit infrastructure. There is absolutely no reason to dedicate that to being our safe consumption site. And you can't have it both ways - if there are constantly addicts using the space a huge percentage of regular people won't use it. No matter how safe Wormius feels around people doing meth that isn't going to be a consensus opinion any time soon.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Honestly I am a bit surprised that this isn't a thing. They've done this with problem areas of the city. I haven't spent much time around Crack macs the past few years but pre-covid they'd managed to convert that corner to being basically a ghost town for anyone who might bother anyone just with constant police presence. If the assumption was that you couldn't do this stuff on the Ctrain or in the stations because CPS would be all over you in minutes it might at least make transit seem less scary to people. I've heard from a ton of people over the last year who won't ride the c train anymore.

I'm not sure if it's what their intention is, but CT is trying to hire a lot more peace officers at the moment.

The other half of that though is I think if these people just had somewhere better to go, then they'd go there. People would be more willing to not hang around the c-train if there was a better alternative, make it easier to chase them off and they'd be a lot less likely to return

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'm not sure if it's what their intention is, but CT is trying to hire a lot more peace officers at the moment.

The other half of that though is I think if these people just had somewhere better to go, then they'd go there. People would be more willing to not hang around the c-train if there was a better alternative, make it easier to chase them off and they'd be a lot less likely to return

Yeah, we need a safe consumption site for them to go to.

It probably doesn't need wheels and 600V power though.

[PepsiFree]

It’s almost like… what if they had a c-train shelter of their own… heated… with a door they could lock… and maybe a bathroom they could use… and a bed…

Madness.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I mean, the DIC has most of those things.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I mean, the DIC has most of those things.

Happily the city just extended their lease so they qualify for some upgrades for the provincial government.

But, the sad truth there, is a lot of these people don't want to go to the DIC, for them it's no better than going to jail

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I guess you could question OP if you don’t believe him?

Yeah, so perception, but not any serious number of violent events that eclipse other issues in the city.

He witnessed a weird situation in the mall, and a squeegee kid tried to clean his daughter's car's windshield. It's interesting, I guess.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by btimbit

But, the sad truth there, is a lot of these people don't want to go to the DIC, for them it's no better than going to jail

I tend to suspect the same would be true, in a lot of those cases, for a block of tiny low cost apartments. I can see a lot of ways that could either be ineffective or go badly too. I guess it's still a thing to try, if you can find somewhere to put it with all the NIMBYs out there, but I am very skeptical of "just give the addicts houses" as some silver bullet solution.

Not to mention, wherever you put it, is it going to resemble the 2 block area surrounding the DIC? Because I don't know if you've spent any time around there, but...

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It’s almost like… what if they had a c-train shelter of their own… heated… with a door they could lock… and maybe a bathroom they could use… and a bed…

Madness.

Almost all the people on the train have a home so why are they on the train?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I tend to suspect the same would be true, in a lot of those cases, for a block of tiny low cost apartments. I can see a lot of ways that could either be ineffective or go badly too. I guess it's still a thing to try, if you can find somewhere to put it with all the NIMBYs out there, but I am very skeptical of "just give the addicts houses" as some silver bullet solution.

Not to mention, wherever you put it, is it going to resemble the 2 block area surrounding the DIC? Because I don't know if you've spent any time around there, but...

I think I said this a while ago in a different thread, but low-cost, dense public housing is going to be a tough sell too.

You cram a bunch of people with addiction and mental health issues into a cramped space with nothing to do and nowhere to go and you're essentially just lighting a powderkeg.

There are a lot of reasons homeless individuals dont want to go to shelters or public housing, its not only just because they would have to follow their rules but a big element is that they can be very dangerous places.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I tend to suspect the same would be true, in a lot of those cases, for a block of tiny low cost apartments. I can see a lot of ways that could either be ineffective or go badly too. I guess it's still a thing to try, if you can find somewhere to put it with all the NIMBYs out there, but I am very skeptical of "just give the addicts houses" as some silver bullet solution.

Not to mention, wherever you put it, is it going to resemble the 2 block area surrounding the DIC? Because I don't know if you've spent any time around there, but...

Oh trust me, I get called to that area constantly.

All I've been trying to say in this thread is that it's not as simple as roughing them out of where they're bothering people. Over and over and over people ask "Why is this being tolerated" or "Why aren't the police doing anything" and the thing they're missing with that question is, the police are doing something. It's just that the problem is so large that you don't notice it, whenever these people get booted out of there, others come in. When they get booted out of there, they just come back. Trust me, the police are sick of it too, they're on a first name basis with half these people, but there's nothing they can do about it, they don't have the ability to change laws or policy

I simply disagree with the idea that we just need to do more of what we've clearly seen doesn't work

We need carrot and stick, not one or the other.

Basically, this thread is just going to keep going back to this

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

But if we arrest that person, do they stay in jail? Do they get any help? Do they get clean while there? Are there any resources that go into the corrective behaviour process? No?

Just like, a couple days (or hours) and release? That’s Vancouvers “strategy”, which to your point- seems like a half measure. It’s okay to keep people like this locked up if they aren’t otherwise willing to take help. That’s I think the part where Portugal shines. It’s get them off the street, decriminalize and then force them to attend resources designed to get them off addictive substances like therapy, a social worker who doesn’t have a million cases and is paid a living wage and competent, and yes probably food / shelter for a minimal period of time. But those resources are not a) infinite and b) technically optional. If a person refuses- back to jail, not back to parking lot to yell at people and do drugs again.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Happily the city just extended their lease so they qualify for some upgrades for the provincial government.

But, the sad truth there, is a lot of these people don't want to go to the DIC, for them it's no better than going to jail

I used to hire from temp agencies and we'd get some guys that didn't have homes. They all said the DI was a last resort and only in the cold of winter. It's apparently hell on earth unless your mind is gone with extreme drug addiction, in which case you probably don't notice what's going on around you.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I tend to suspect the same would be true, in a lot of those cases, for a block of tiny low cost apartments. I can see a lot of ways that could either be ineffective or go badly too. I guess it's still a thing to try, if you can find somewhere to put it with all the NIMBYs out there, but I am very skeptical of "just give the addicts houses" as some silver bullet solution.

Not to mention, wherever you put it, is it going to resemble the 2 block area surrounding the DIC? Because I don't know if you've spent any time around there, but...

Well that’s just it. I’m fine with those “solutions”. Near someone else. I’m sure I’ll get labelled a NIMBY and all that, but it’s entirely rational. I don’t want that anywhere near me and have no intention of going to Bonavista once we agree it can be there.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well that’s just it. I’m fine with those “solutions”. Near someone else. I’m sure I’ll get labelled a NIMBY and all that, but it’s entirely rational. I don’t want that anywhere near me and have no intention of going to Bonavista once we agree it can be there.

Yeah. That’s pretty much what being a NIMBY is.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Yeah. That’s pretty much what being a NIMBY is.

Honestly, who would be cool with owning a property next door to this kind of facility?