[PGT] Jets 3 Flames 2

[1_Flames_Fan]

Flames need a sniper, gotta trade for a guy like Kaprisov, Robertson, Pastrnak...or draft one I guess.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Or even more reason to be concerned if they can’t win when playing well

What happens when they don’t play well again / go in a slump

Moral victories don’t count for anything

I think they do.

Any sport I've ever played or coached you can build off playing well if things don't go your way.

Hell how many times have you birdied the 18th hole and then went in for a beer thinking you have things beat despite shooting 95?

It's really up to the team.

If they feel they're rounding into shape, and coming together they can certainly have some value in a well played game that didn't go their way.

I honestly don't understand how some fans seem to almost seem angry with those that see a silver lining in a loss. We don't all have to be black and white in our assessments and miserable!

[HighLifeMan]

I really don't buy that this team lacks skill.

Sutter openly criticizing his players for a lack of a big goal/moment is laughable when he knowingly chooses ;

- To play Lucic in his top six with our two high end forward acquisitions after more than a calendar year's worth of play suggesting the game has completely passed him by
- Is completely unwilling to change up the look and or the personnel of his 27th ranked powerplay.
- Demotes and significantly diminishes the minutes of a rookie who was producing incredibly well with 17 points in his first 20 games

These are self inflicted wounds. He should take accountability for his own stupid roster decisions.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Reading through the PGT it seems as if the flames had a typical
2022-2023 game. High volume of shots but couldn’t finish enough. Tight game vs a very good team in Winnipeg. Winnipeg is always a tough out.

Seems like the refs are keeping their Schtick up as well.

I agree with the one posters inferring of the flames’ xGF saying the team is leading the play most games but has a -20 penalty differential. To me this is a glaring problem with they league and this team. Aside from the bad stick infractions in OTs past, they really do get the more unfavourable whistle.

Even then though, with a better whistle, what do they do with it? Their PP is bottom 3rd for a reason. They rarely look like they are dominating or making the other team pay or keeping the team in a close game. Sure they can score vs the worst teams but where’s a pp1 when you need it against a contender?

This team is snake bit. Posts and lack of finish have really deteriorated their confidence.

Lucky for them to be in the pacific and still in a wild card spot for meow.

I think we just have to ride this season out and hope coronato doesn’t get cold crimson feet. He can always finish his degree in the off-season. He has a chance to be a black ace and really help this group. They are close but need some Finnish. They aren’t close to being a top end team tho. More fringe contender if anything barring a late crazy St. Louis like surge. That’s more outlier than probable outcome.

Tough season to watch.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I really don't buy that this team lacks skill.

Sutter openly criticizing his players for a lack of a big goal/moment is laughable when he knowingly chooses ;

- To play Lucic in his top six with our two high end forward acquisitions after more than a calendar year's worth of play suggesting the game has completely passed him by
- Is completely unwilling to change up the look and or the personnel of his 27th ranked powerplay.
- Demotes and significantly diminishes the minutes of a rookie who was producing incredibly well with 17 points in his first 20 games

These are self inflicted wounds. He should take accountability for his own stupid roster decisions.

They have finally found some chemistry in the forward group that has a top players producing and have avoided a fourth line that was getting just run over.

I'm sure he doesn't see Lucic there forever, but the team is currently playing well, so he hasn't changed it.

Hard to argue with recent success and how they're playing.

Do you honestly think you see things the coaching staff doesn't? Is he just doing it for kicks in your mind? To torture fans?

[Classic_Sniper]

Wasn’t able to watch the game yesterday, but it sounds like it was another typical Flames nail bitter. Too bad the Flames couldn’t eek out at least a point as it looks like the Jets were pretty banged up and missing a lot of regulars. Looks like Darryl threw a bit of a dig at his top guns, asking for someone to “step up and make a big play.”

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Maybe this is 4D chess sutter is playing. Maybe he knows about the quality of the draft class and the whl specifically and he’s hedging towards a shot at the playoffs and the back end of the lottery to pick up a shooter in this draft? There are gonna be some solid players in the teens this year who would otherwise be top ten most years.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They have finally found some chemistry in the forward group that has a top players producing and have avoided a fourth line that was getting just run over.

I'm sure he doesn't see Lucic there forever, but the team is currently playing well, so he hasn't changed it.

Hard to argue with recent success and how they're playing.

Do you honestly think you see things the coaching staff doesn't? Is he just doing it for kicks in your mind? To torture fans?

I am not so sure I see the chemistry you are talking about - especially with that second line. I see a line that bleeds high danger chances against. I see a a guy playing well above his capabilities with our two most purely talented forwards. The fact Lucic even got that opportunity to begin with is highly concerning to me.

I am sure the coaching staff see's a 27th ranked powerplay. The question is why hasn't it changed or been tinkered with?

I see a player in Ruzicka that can and does create offense when given the opportunity to do so.

Sometimes the best solutions are the easiest and most obvious.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I am not so sure I see the chemistry you are talking about - especially with that second line. I see a line that bleeds high danger chances against. I see a a guy playing well above his capabilities with our two most purely talented forwards. The fact Lucic even got that opportunity to begin with is highly concerning to me.

I am sure the coaching staff see's a 27th ranked powerplay. The question is why hasn't it changed or been tinkered with?

I see a player in Ruzicka that can and does create offense when given the opportunity to do so.

Sometimes the best solutions are the easiest and most obvious.

If you look at each line as a singular thing sure. We all see that.

But the team ... the four lines as they are constructed have gone from 50.3% on the season before the change in high danger splits to 53.7% with these lines.

That's my point.

He may not be in love with Lucic on that line either, but the constructs of all four lines are giving the team some of it's best hockey of the season.

Fix line two and mess up lines 1,3 and 4.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If you look at each line as a singular thing sure. We all see that.

But the team ... the four lines as they are constructed have gone from 50.3% on the season before the change in high danger splits to 53.7% with these lines.

That's my point.

He may not be in love with Lucic on that line either, but the constructs of all four lines are giving the team some of it's best hockey of the season.

Fix line two and mess up lines 1,3 and 4.

I agree with this, but why not try calling up a kid from the farm and put him there. I know, "always earn and never given" but, Lucic haven't earned it neither. Try it for a game or 2 or 3, if it doesn't work or the kid not ready, then after 3 games, tell the kid what he needs to work on. I think Lucic needs to sit a few games to kind of wake him up.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If you look at each line as a singular thing sure. We all see that.

But the team ... the four lines as they are constructed have gone from 50.3% on the season before the change in high danger splits to 53.7% with these lines.

That's my point.

He may not be in love with Lucic on that line either, but the constructs of all four lines are giving the team some of it's best hockey of the season.

Fix line two and mess up lines 1,3 and 4.

Well again - the blatantly obvious solution would be to move Ruzicka into the top nine, and Lucic out of it. A large increase in production and positive play from that 2nd line would far outweigh the small hit (if any) the 4th line would take during it's limited minutes.

Dramatically overplaying one player, all while underutilizing another for the simple sake of rolling four lines is nothing short of counter-productive, isn't it?

I don't think I am alone in that line of thinking.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Well again - the blatantly obvious solution would be to move Ruzicka into the top nine, and Lucic out of it. A large increase in production and positive play from that 2nd line would far outweigh the small hit (if any) the 4th line would take during it's limited minutes.

Dramatically overplaying one player, all while underutilizing another for the simple sake of rolling four lines is nothing short of counter-productive, isn't it?

I don't think I am alone in that line of thinking.

I think that's the long term plan for sure.

My gut is that's why they are moving Huberdeau to the right side often.

But part of this is developing Adam Ruzicka too ... a kid known to be massively disinterested and inconsistent from before he was drafted.

He disappeared.

He was demoted.

Second time this season.

Sutter has a plan on how long this punishment can last, and in the meantime he's finding Lucic does less damage to the top nine than other options like Lewis or Ritchie.

You don't have to agree with it ... many don't. But the team is playing well and there is clearly method to the madness and not just some dummy opting for self inflicted wounds.

Here are the charts updated. The current lines are the last two data points (31-35 and 36-40)

Chances against ... down
Chances for ... up
xGF% way up

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Well again - the blatantly obvious solution would be to move Ruzicka into the top nine, and Lucic out of it. A large increase in production and positive play from that 2nd line would far outweigh the small hit (if any) the 4th line would take during it's limited minutes.

Dramatically overplaying one player, all while underutilizing another for the simple sake of rolling four lines is nothing short of counter-productive, isn't it?

I don't think I am alone in that line of thinking.

Exactly. The Lucic top 6 experiment needs to end.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

I am not so sure I see the chemistry you are talking about - especially with that second line. I see a line that bleeds high danger chances against. I see a a guy playing well above his capabilities with our two most purely talented forwards. The fact Lucic even got that opportunity to begin with is highly concerning to me.

I am sure the coaching staff see's a 27th ranked powerplay. The question is why hasn't it changed or been tinkered with?

I see a player in Ruzicka that can and does create offense when given the opportunity to do so.

Sometimes the best solutions are the easiest and most obvious.

I think people have forgotten just how paltry Huberdeau's 5 on 5 production was prior to Lucic being moved to his line. Jonathan had 7 points in 29 games prior to Lucic entering the equation and has 5 in 7 games with Milan. I don't think the big man has gotten enough credit for what he's added to that line.

Now for the record, I don't think he's the long term answer either, but I'm ok giving Lucic more run way with #10 until a more permanent solution is found, whether in house or through acquisition.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Bingo

charts

Are we acknowledging that games 31-39 included 2 vs the Sharks, 1 vs the Ducks, and 1 vs the Nucks?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Are we acknowledging that games 31-39 included 2 vs the Sharks, 1 vs the Ducks, and 1 vs the Nucks?

Are you suggesting that strength of schedule influences results?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Are we acknowledging that games 31-39 included 2 vs the Sharks, 1 vs the Ducks, and 1 vs the Nucks?

I don't know are we?

I certainly haven't hidden anything.

[Mathgod]

I just think using those charts as justification for keeping Looch in the top 6 is a bit shortsighted.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I just think using those charts as justification for keeping Looch in the top 6 is a bit shortsighted.

Team is playing better in this time period.

Regardless of opposition.

Lines have had better overall chemistry.

So the team metrics have improved greatly.

It's not illogical to not want to change things when it's working.

Nobody is justifying Lucic as a top six forward ... just saying the fourth line has been better, and the top nine overall has been better.

[Mathgod]

And yet, the Flames have scored just 9 goals in their past 4 games and Huby has just 1 point in that stretch, cooling off just when it looked like he was starting to heat up. I'm hoping this isn't a one-step-forward-one-step-back kind of year all the way to the end of the season. This team needs to find some consistency in its production. I'd argue Looch in the top 6 isn't the answer.

And yes, quality of opposition does have to be taken into account. Any team would look great and appear to have amazing chemistry playing a whole bunch of games vs bottom feeding teams.