Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I'm quite pessimistic about the upcoming 20% target coming up. From what I have seen, EV sales are about 7% this year and that is up from 5.6% last year. There is considerable pent up demand and supply shortages currently but it looks like access to cheap financing might be going away so the growth needed to hit 20% may not exist.

Electric cars are nowhere near read for this level of adoption. A ton of people don't even have a place to plug them in. We should be pushing Hydbrids more in my opinion.

An electric car wouldn't work for my needs at all at this point. They aren't even close for me.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Electric cars are nowhere near read for this level of adoption. A ton of people don't even have a place to plug them in. We should be pushing Hydbrids more in my opinion.

An electric car wouldn't work for my needs at all at this point. They aren't even close for me.

Not to mention availability and price

[Locke]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Not to mention availability and price

I think one of the true tests is going to emerge down the line when it comes down to reliability and repairability.

How well are these things going to fare in the secondary market? How well are their batteries and components to last? How much is maintaining a used one going to cost?

Because not everyone can waltz into a Tesla dealership and just buy one every few years.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Locke

I think one of the true tests is going to emerge down the line when it comes down to reliability and repairability.

How well are these things going to fare in the secondary market? How well are their batteries and components to last? How much is maintaining a used one going to cost?

Because not everyone can waltz into a Tesla dealership and just buy one every few years.

Electric cars should (SHOULD) be much more reliable than combustion cars. There are fewer parts and the systems are less dependent on each other. The obvious exception is the battery, which would need to be replaced periodically. I think that longevity is actually the most important environmental benefit of electric cars.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by wireframe

Electric cars should (SHOULD) be much more reliable than combustion cars. There are fewer parts and the systems are less dependent on each other. The obvious exception is the battery, which would need to be replaced periodically. I think that longevity is actually the most important environmental benefit of electric cars.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Electric motors and how they operate, but anecdotally, in my experience the benefit of ICEs is that component complexity....in that, you can generally fix it fairly simply as only one component typically fails at any given time unless the damage is catastrophic.

Whereas with an electric motor it either works perfectly well...or not at all.

No middle ground.

So instead of perhaps a few bucks here and there for some engine repair, its a lot of bucks for a complete replacement.

Its great that we want to electrify the world or whatever, but I think we also need to acknowledge that not everyone is going to be able to afford these things.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Electric motors and how they operate, but anecdotally, in my experience the benefit of ICEs is that component complexity....in that, you can generally fix it fairly simply as only one component typically fails at any given time unless the damage is catastrophic.

Whereas with an electric motor it either works perfectly well...or not at all.

No middle ground.

So instead of perhaps a few bucks here and there for some engine repair, its a lot of bucks for a complete replacement.

Its great that we want to electrify the world or whatever, but I think we also need to acknowledge that not everyone is going to be able to afford these things.

MIL's XC40 Recharge got stuck in some sort of loop during an OTA update once and killed both the main vehicle battery and the +12V automotive battery. I couldn't open the door with the remote -- had to use the key blade, couldn't plug it in to recharge it -- it wouldn't even acknowledge it was plugged in, and guess what else depends on electricity: the ability to put the vehicle into neutral. 4,700 lb. garage ornament. Damn thing had to be winched out of the garage using plastic skates hammered under the tires.

Even though there's more crap on an ICE that can break, the cost to replace those individual parts is lower, provided it wasn't something like a timing chain that took the rest of the engine innards with it. With no user-serviceable parts in EV batteries, a failure means the complete replacement of a very, very expensive piece of equipment.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Electric motors and how they operate, but anecdotally, in my experience the benefit of ICEs is that component complexity....in that, you can generally fix it fairly simply as only one component typically fails at any given time unless the damage is catastrophic.

Whereas with an electric motor it either works perfectly well...or not at all.

No middle ground.

So instead of perhaps a few bucks here and there for some engine repair, its a lot of bucks for a complete replacement.

Its great that we want to electrify the world or whatever, but I think we also need to acknowledge that not everyone is going to be able to afford these things.

As it was with early automobiles too. With mass market will come more affordable options. Given the price many people pay today for luxury cars, SUVs, and pickups there is no shortage of people who can afford EVs today, certainly way more than 20%. There will also be a huge market for used ICE vehicles.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

MIL's XC40 Recharge got stuck in some sort of loop during an OTA update once and killed both the main vehicle battery and the +12V automotive battery. I couldn't open the door with the remote -- had to use the key blade, couldn't plug it in to recharge it -- it wouldn't even acknowledge it was plugged in, and guess what else depends on electricity: the ability to put the vehicle into neutral. 4,700 lb. garage ornament. Damn thing had to be winched out of the garage using plastic skates hammered under the tires.

Even though there's more crap on an ICE that can break, the cost to replace those individual parts is lower, provided it wasn't something like a timing chain that took the rest of the engine innards with it. With no user-serviceable parts in EV batteries, a failure means the complete replacement of a very, very expensive piece of equipment.

Yeah....essentially my point.

If at some point down the life term of the vehicle one thing breaks and its either a massive cost or the whole thing is garbage, are we really saving the world here? Is this any better?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

MIL's XC40 Recharge got stuck in some sort of loop during an OTA update once and killed both the main vehicle battery and the +12V automotive battery. I couldn't open the door with the remote -- had to use the key blade, couldn't plug it in to recharge it -- it wouldn't even acknowledge it was plugged in, and guess what else depends on electricity: the ability to put the vehicle into neutral. 4,700 lb. garage ornament. Damn thing had to be winched out of the garage using plastic skates hammered under the tires.

Even though there's more crap on an ICE that can break, the cost to replace those individual parts is lower, provided it wasn't something like a timing chain that took the rest of the engine innards with it. With no user-serviceable parts in EV batteries, a failure means the complete replacement of a very, very expensive piece of equipment.

The Fast Lane Trucks guys had something very similar happen with their brand new Hummer EV. It bricked in the middle of the road and he couldn't get it to reset/reboot. They couldn't get the frunk open because it is power operated but they finally managed to find the hidden release cable. They were able to disconnect the 12v and it reset the system and they were able to drive to the dealership.

[Doctorfever]

Was reading through the weather thread, wondering if anyone has any information on what our electrical grid capacity is, and where it will need to be when the government mandated EV purchases come up?

If the grid is stressed during an extreme weather event, obviously it will need to be expanded not only due to normal population increases, but to help meet the demand placed on it by additional EVs.

Anyone work in that industry or have information to share?

[GGG]

https://www.aeso.ca/

The aeso has a lot info on power use and demand in Alberta. You can see all the historical usage. It doesn’t really answer what max grid capacity is though. I think our current issue is generation capacity in cold conditions when renewables are low though I’m no expert.

[calculoso]

It’s really hard to say how EVs will impact the grid. If you plug in your car for 8 hours, it won’t be charging for the whole time and could even act as a battery to help grid stability during that plugged in time. It will be very interesting to hear what kind of side deals that utilities and car manufacturers will be making to give better visibility and predictability on where the EV vehicles are at any point in time, where they may charge, and how grid load/capacity will vary based on that.

[accord1999]

EV charging is just one of several issues facing grids in the Western world. You also have many baseload/dispatchable power plants that are now aging and retiring without being properly replaced. You also have movements to ban natural gas heating and to electrify it, which could double or triple peak electricity demand in places that get cold in the winter.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by calculoso

It’s really hard to say how EVs will impact the grid. If you plug in your car for 8 hours, it won’t be charging for the whole time and could even act as a battery to help grid stability during that plugged in time. It will be very interesting to hear what kind of side deals that utilities and car manufacturers will be making to give better visibility and predictability on where the EV vehicles are at any point in time, where they may charge, and how grid load/capacity will vary based on that.

Ya, I was thinking the same thing with the batteries acting like grid storage. Could be really smart. Probably not much to make it work, just change out the meter to something similar of same as solar setup. Could potentially be a break for ev owners like you said.

[Dion]

[jayswin]

Oh Dion.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ya, I was thinking the same thing with the batteries acting like grid storage. Could be really smart. Probably not much to make it work, just change out the meter to something similar of same as solar setup. Could potentially be a break for ev owners like you said.

I guess that could help the grid a bit, but it kind of doesn’t make sense. If you plug in a car or phone don’t you hope it is charged up when you want to use it, not half dead because the grid or your house is sucking power from your device when you thought it was charging?

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I guess that could help the grid a bit, but it kind of doesn’t make sense. If you plug in a car or phone don’t you hope it is charged up when you want to use it, not half dead because the grid or your house is sucking power from your device when you thought it was charging?

That would be easy enough to handle as you could just tell your electric car not to drain beyond x% in battery so you know you have enough range for whatever you're using it for the next day.

So it could charge it up to 100% when there is excess power capacity in the grid then set a limit it won't drain beyond 75% capacity if the power is requested by the grid. For an extended range Model S this would give you the equivalent of 2 powerwalls installed in your house which is enough to power the average house for a full day and still leave you with over 400km in driving range at 75% battery capacity. If you had a long range trip coming up you could always tell it to maintain 100% charge as well.

Obviously it would be very complex but its interesting to think about what the energy grid might look like 20 years from now.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Dion

Does insomnia make you think this is at all funny? lame.

[PepsiFree]

It’s kind of a fitting post for the season. After all, nothing says Christmas like a senior citizen casually dropping an old timey homophobic slur.