Craig Button: Flames have the 28th "Best" group of players under the age of 24

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't think there is any conspiracy nor did I imply there was. I just don't think losing a bunch of 4th liners is going to change how the Flames approach the bottom 6. They even added Rooney this off-season when somebody on the farm could have played a bottom 6 role just as admirably.

I don't disagree, some of the choices have been strange when it comes to depth. But these are not depth prospects and when they are ready, it certainly allows you to slide players like Dube and Coleman down the lineup and provide a heck of a lot more than the current 4th line crop.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

He is definitely not close to a go to for me either.

But, I think he isn't totally off. We have a lot key players that are older.

Where do you think we should be on that list?

I have us a couple spots higher. I just rage everytime I think of what could have been if that idiot had never run this organization.
He set the franchise back years with his stupidity.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have us a couple spots higher. I just rage everytime I think of what could have been if that idiot had never run this organization.
He set the franchise back years with his stupidity.

Yes, blame him for the 15 years of suck before him and the 15 years of suck ( minus 1 year) after him. He's to blame.. lmao

[CFO]

Sorry how is Edmonton that high???

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It's Craig Button, like I trust his judgement of talent.

He was a crappy GM who listened to a moron coach but make no mistake he's pretty good at the evaluation of young talent.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

He was a crappy GM who listened to a moron coach but make no mistake he's pretty good at the evaluation of young talent.

I'll never forgive him for listening to the idiot coach and traded Marc Savard for peanuts and THEN fire the idiot coach.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CFO

Sorry how is Edmonton that high???

Craig is also high

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by redmile04

Yes, blame him for the 15 years of suck before him and the 15 years of suck ( minus 1 year) after him. He's to blame.. lmao

Where did I say he was to blame for anything before he came aboard? If you don't think his brutal trades like sending away the #1 C we never could get for a crappy Russian prospect and releasing St Louis for nothing didn't set this team back I will just assume you know the square root of F all about hockey. If you don't think those two players plus JS Giguere that he also gave away didn't negatively affect this team you're out to lunch! Imagine Savard feeding Iginla and St Louis...ya, not to blame at all.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

He was a crappy GM who listened to a moron coach but make no mistake he's pretty good at the evaluation of young talent.

We will agree to disagree on that. I find he just regurgitates what other guys like Pronman say. If he is such a great evaluater of young talent why is he not working as a pro scout in the NHL instead of being married to TSN for years? Hell, even Pierre McGuire got a sniff at the NHL again.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by 8sPOT

Same old story here. Flames have never been bad to enough to get consecutive top picks. So we slowly rotate in a rookie that has been cooking in the system for a few years.

The only outliers were Tkachuk and Monahan, but thats almost a decade ago.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, but if another team adds 3 young players that become core pieces they are going to be further ahead of us at some point.

I have never liked the term "cooking prospects. It reenforces the idea that we are going to keep them down there as long as possible. Lately it seems the Flames are closer to baking. Are the Flames a little too conservative and afraid of change? When you look at Johnny and MT it seems like we waiited a little long for the chips to fall into place before we made moves. Twice I recall Johnny brought up that he hated the long negotiation process after signing his contracts. The longer it went on the more apprehensive the parties involve got until things fell apart. I am not trying to rehash but wonder if the Flames are a bit too conservative and should take some risks. Signing Johnny sooner for more is a good risk. Trading MT sooner for an elite player when he didnotn seem happy here might have been a risk worth taking.

[JohnnyB]

I feel like the Flames were doing pretty decently with drafting quality talent for a while. Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau, and Fox were all great picks. Others like Andersson, Bennett, Dube, Kylington, and Mangiapanne were also solid picks. It's just a shame we now only have the solid picks while all the great picks are playing elsewhere.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

If the cap only goes up $1million, Flames may be forced to play ELCs

Or end up with a bunch of PTOs that get signed.

[Spinach]

As long as Treliving doesn't trade the first-rounder in a great draft this season (for forwards, at least), we should at least be able to add a quality prospect or two who'll be ready soon. Hopefully that would occur before the greybeards are washed up.

The team is on the older side now. Fortunately, some of the contracts of the guys over 30 either expire this season or next. The ones that don't are:

Kadri, age 32 - 6 more years at 7M per. I'm not sure whether or not this'll be buyout-proof towards the end. He seems like someone who could be a good veteran presence if there's an influx of kids.

Huberdeau, age 29 - 8 more years at 10.5M per. Yikes.

Weegar, age 28 - 8 more years at 6.25 per. D-men tend to age a little better, but so far he doesn't look worth the money.

Markstrom, age 32 - 3 more years at 6M per. Hopefully he won't age like Grandpa Simpson.

Coleman, age 31 - 4 more years at 4.9M per. If he declines as much as Lucic did, at least he doesn't make as much as Lucic.

That means that, at this point, there will be five potentially bad contracts totalling close to $35M on the books after '23-'24. Although it's not ideal, it's probably manageable if the cap space goes up. The key is to draft well and to only surrender high picks when the team looks like a contender!

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am posting in the trade forum on how it is maybe not the right call to extend Lindholm and Hanifin due to the age of this team. A team full of 30 something’s doesn’t win in the NHL today.

The fact that this team seemingly is blocking their young players from breaking through and the 7 year age jump from Tkachuk to Kadri this team feels so old already with some massive contracts not kicking in yet.

Almost all stanley cup winners are not in the top 10 youngest teams in the NHL. More teams win with an average age of 28 than win under an average age of 27.

Average age also can swing in a hurry. Flames have Backlun, Lewis and Lucic over the age of 32. Lots of good players 24-26 which is just over the threshold for this list.

You can make a case Backlund is the only player that his age is a big concern. His contract is almost up and if he stays I bet it's for less money.

Lucic and Lewis are UFA's and the wrangler have lots of player playing very well.

The concern for me is always of this season is a disaster will the Flames move on from good vet players?

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am posting in the trade forum on how it is maybe not the right call to extend Lindholm and Hanifin due to the age of this team. A team full of 30 something’s doesn’t win in the NHL today.

The fact that this team seemingly is blocking their young players from breaking through and the 7 year age jump from Tkachuk to Kadri this team feels so old already with some massive contracts not kicking in yet.

That's been part of the problem. Their young players are not good enough to step up and help the big club in a more significant way. Love the Phillips story but the chances are very low of him making an impact at the NHL level. The only player is maybe Wolf that one day could be an impact player. The cupboards are pretty bare and that is on Treliving. This is his team that he has built and it does not look very promising. Excuses aside their are always other options or choices to make. Only 2 playoff wins in his going on 9yr tenure, not much at all on the farm and a current team that is old and slow with no game breakers.He was being praised after the summer but unless this team starts to show a lot more in a hurry this could be turn pretty ugly.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This is a big nothing burger. Is it really that old of a team if you suddenly have Zary, Pelletier and Ruzicka all playing significant roles as early as later this season or next year?

Yes it is, because the Flames don't currently have one player on the team who is young and making significant contributions.

That's one big IF.

The Flames need to win now, or it won't for some time. It's why this core will be given some years to produce, as there isn't any reasonable choice.

When the Hawks won their first (of recent times SC), a large part of their core was as follows:

Kane 21
Toews 21
Keith 26
Seabrook 24
Hjammer 22
Bolland 23

Sustained success for any team starts with a productive core that is very young. That core sustained the hawks through 3 Stanley Cups. Sure they supplemented that core with some older players, but it was the young core that made the day.

[Flaming Horse]

People just need to realize the prospects we have on the farm are just not very good and have been overvalued and that is why they have not been called up. Come on, you think the org would keep them on the farm if they knew they could come up and contribute. So much has been overvalued on this team. That's part of another issue.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It's Craig Button, like I trust his judgement of talent.

What were his worst moves for us as GM?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

What were his worst moves for us as GM?

tough to choose between:

- Buying out Martin St Louis
- Trading Marc Savard for some career KHLer
- Trading JS Giguere for a second rounder which he proceeded to trade for a 4th and some career AHLer

That is a 1W, 1C, 1G he traded for zilch. Imagine we had those pieces in 2004

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

People just need to realize the prospects we have on the farm are just not very good and have been overvalued and that is why they have not been called up. Come on, you think the org would keep them on the farm if they knew they could come up and contribute. So much has been overvalued on this team. That's part of another issue.

Well that’s not something nice to hear either if you say the players we draft suck. If they suck or they are being held back in the long run that means the players are not helping the Flames which doesn’t bode well for the team. That being said I have a hard time thinking some farm players are not better than Lucic/Lewis/Ritchie. It’s not that high a barrier to beat.