England were better than France, which if that played out in a series would more often than not mean England win the series. That's the whole point though, in a one and done game it does come down to more randomness. Brazil wins a best of seven against Croatia in five or six tops. In a winner takes all? We saw what happened.
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England were better than France, which if that played out in a series would more often than not mean England win the series. That's the whole point though, in a one and done game it does come down to more randomness. Brazil wins a best of seven against Croatia in five or six tops. In a winner takes all? We saw what happened.
You're not factoring adjustments. You don't think France would adjust if they win/loss each game in the series?
Maybe Brazil never breaksdown Croatia. I find much more upsets in NHL 7-game series. Didn't 5,6,7,8 all advance one year (the year LA won the cup).
If the World Cup was so random, we wouldn't have only 8 champs.
My analysis on Brazil is they just don't have the heart or passion anymore. They can't win ugly games. When they have an off day or run into someone tactically sound, they can't grind through games. They can only beat minnows. Whereas Argentina had a real war against Netherlands this year and some tough matches other years, I think Brazil would have lost a game like that.
These are the Brazil wins since beating Germany in 2002
2022 South Korea
2022 Switzerland
2022 Serbia
2018 Serbia
2018 Costa Rica
2018 Mexico
2014 Cameroon
2014 Croatia
2014 Chile
2014 Colombia
2010 North Korea
2010 Ivory Coast
2010 Chile
2006 Croatia
2006 Japan
2006 Australia
2006 Ghana
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You're not factoring adjustments. You don't think France would adjust if they win/loss each game in the series?
Maybe Brazil never breaksdown Croatia. I find much more upsets in NHL 7-game series. Didn't 5,6,7,8 all advance one year (the year LA won the cup).
If the World Cup was so random, we wouldn't have only 8 champs.
My analysis on Brazil is they just don't have the heart or passion anymore. They can't win ugly games. When they have an off day or run into someone tactically sound, they can't grind through games. They can only beat minnows. Whereas Argentina had a real war against Netherlands this year and some tough matches other years, I think Brazil would have lost a game like that.
These are the Brazil wins since beating Germany in 2002
2022 South Korea
2022 Switzerland
2022 Serbia
2018 Serbia
2018 Costa Rica
2018 Mexico
2014 Cameroon
2014 Croatia
2014 Chile
2014 Colombia
2010 North Korea
2010 Ivory Coast
2010 Chile
2006 Croatia
2006 Japan
2006 Australia
2006 Ghana
That's interesting analysis actually, and those WC results kinda speak for themselves. Mexico and Croatia are probably the best teams they beat in that span. Would be interesting to see who beat them in that time span.
]England were better than France, which if that played out in a series would more often than not mean England win the series.[/B] That's the whole point though, in a one and done game it does come down to more randomness. Brazil wins a best of seven against Croatia in five or six tops. In a winner takes all? We saw what happened.
Don't agree with this; France wins that series easily.
France knows how to win, England knows how to lose.
Their losses to Croatia in 2018, Italy 2020 and even the draw against the USA shows they are consistent in losing games they should win.
They have a good squad but if you look at their results over that last 3 major tournaments, Southgate's team has only really won 1 match against a top 10 opponent (2-0 over Germany).
That's interesting analysis actually, and those WC results kinda speak for themselves. Mexico and Croatia are probably the best teams they beat in that span. Would be interesting to see who beat them in that time span.
You're not factoring adjustments. You don't think France would adjust if they win/loss each game in the series?
Maybe Brazil never breaksdown Croatia. I find much more upsets in NHL 7-game series. Didn't 5,6,7,8 all advance one year (the year LA won the cup).
If the World Cup was so random, we wouldn't have only 8 champs.
As already mentioned the NHL is a bad comparable because there really isn't a sport where one position wins it by himself quite like hockey. Even the NBA, where you need a superstar to win, one superstar can't do it by himself (see: LeBron). And yeah I'm not factoring in adjustments, as you are likely not factoring in depth. England are deeper than France right now, and yeah some of that is because of injuries...but injuries are part of the randomness of a short tournament, with single elimination.
In the end suggesting one game elimination isn't more random and has more luck involved than extended series, a whole season, or whatever, is simply wrong. It's why randomness and luck in an extended period almost always balances out. But in one game? No time to balance out.
And yeah, England always find ways to lose, there is obviously something to that. Like the Browns, like the Lions, like Spurs, and everyone else who always finds a way to lose.
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As already mentioned the NHL is a bad comparable because there really isn't a sport where one position wins it by himself quite like hockey. Even the NBA, where you need a superstar to win, one superstar can't do it by himself (see: LeBron). And yeah I'm not factoring in adjustments, as you are likely not factoring in depth. England are deeper than France right now, and yeah some of that is because of injuries...but injuries are part of the randomness of a short tournament, with single elimination.
In the end suggesting one game elimination isn't more random and has more luck involved than extended series, a whole season, or whatever, is simply wrong. It's why randomness and luck in an extended period almost always balances out. But in one game? No time to balance out.
And yeah, England always find ways to lose, there is obviously something to that. Like the Browns, like the Lions, like Spurs, like the Flames and everyone else who always finds a way to lose.
fixed
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Conversely, there's no such thing as parking the bus in hockey. A team can't just put all five guys behind the blue line and hope to hang on for dear life, and then hope when the opportunity to counter comes they score on their one or two chances. A goalie doesn't necessarily have to stand on his head for a 1-0 win in soccer, as we saw with Morocco they just need to be resolute defensively. Both Spain and Portugal created very little in the way of scoring chances, it's not like the goalie produced a masterclass or anything.
Hockey is a bit different because a goalie legitimately can win an entire series, or even a Cup, on his own. There's really no other team sport where that happens.
Is that so?
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I disagree on the point about randomness and luck. Honestly, if all the major sports, soccer is the least random. That’s why you can play a one game final; the better wins probably 9/10 times or more. Sure, you get some undeserving winners here and there. Like Champions League a few years ago when Liverpool inexplicably won (you’re welcome, Locke!), but more often than not it’s not a weird bounce or odd events that turn the tide.
In contrast a sport like hockey has a lot of luck and a single game is much more difficult to predict.
Its funny, in 1998 when Croatia lost the semi and played for bronze, I was still a kid but I remember it was like our entire world stopped. Literally nothing bigger existed back then. Croatia playing for Bronze and we couldn't be happier. (bring back collared football kits!)
Then in 2018 when they won the semi, again my whole world stopped. Packed up my little family and we flew to Zagreb for the party of a lifetime. And what a party it was, despite the loss in the Final.
Now, this bronze medal game is actually a bit disappointing. Yes, we're happy for a chance at a medal, but boy have we been spoiled that playing for 3rd kinda leaves you with an empty feeling. I just kinda chuckle because I'm sure most Canadians/Americans/Russians/Mexicans etc would kill for this opportunity.
Football can be cruel and beautiful.
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Its funny, in 1998 when Croatia lost the semi and played for bronze, I was still a kid but I remember it was like our entire world stopped. Literally nothing bigger existed back then. Croatia playing for Bronze and we couldn't be happier. (bring back collared football kits!)
Then in 2018 when they won the semi, again my whole world stopped. Packed up my little family and we flew to Zagreb for the party of a lifetime. And what a party it was, despite the loss in the Final.
Now, this bronze medal game is actually a bit disappointing. Yes, we're happy for a chance at a medal, but boy have we been spoiled that playing for 3rd kinda leaves you with an empty feeling. I just kinda chuckle because I'm sure most Canadians/Americans/Russians/Mexicans etc would kill for this opportunity.
Football can be cruel and beautiful.
1. Agreed
2. Thats why we love it.
3. No offense to Croatia...but I hope Morocco takes 3rd.
I just think it would mean so, so much more to the Team, the Country and frankly, I just think it would be amazing for the African game.
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Its funny, in 1998 when Croatia lost the semi and played for bronze, I was still a kid but I remember it was like our entire world stopped. Literally nothing bigger existed back then. Croatia playing for Bronze and we couldn't be happier. (bring back collared football kits!)
Then in 2018 when they won the semi, again my whole world stopped. Packed up my little family and we flew to Zagreb for the party of a lifetime. And what a party it was, despite the loss in the Final.
Now, this bronze medal game is actually a bit disappointing. Yes, we're happy for a chance at a medal, but boy have we been spoiled that playing for 3rd kinda leaves you with an empty feeling. I just kinda chuckle because I'm sure most Canadians/Americans/Russians/Mexicans etc would kill for this opportunity.
Football can be cruel and beautiful.
Morocco are underdogs and I bet on them to win Saturday because i think it'll mean more to them. Croatia are tired, some might not even play.
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Morocco are underdogs and I bet on them to win Saturday because i think it'll mean more to them. Croatia are tired, some might not even play.
I doubt Modric takes the pitch for a 3rd place match.
The only issue with Morocco at the moment is some of their top players are injured and they have given it everything all tournament. I dont think we could make a case for any other team having worked harder than Morocco.
They might just exhale here and have nothing left in the tank.
Croatia are a more skilled team, so unless Morocco maintains that exhausting defensive discipline that got them this far they're going to be in tough against Croatia.
And frankly, I could see Croatia after a very long and dignified period of success just not GAF about 3rd.
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I doubt Modric takes the pitch for a 3rd place match.
The only issue with Morocco at the moment is some of their top players are injured and they have given it everything all tournament. I dont think we could make a case for any other team having worked harder than Morocco.
They might just exhale here and have nothing left in the tank.
Croatia are a more skilled team, so unless Morocco maintains that exhausting defensive discipline that got them this far they're going to be in tough against Croatia.
And frankly, I could see Croatia after a very long and dignified period of success just not GAF about 3rd.
What makes him a special kind of star is his drive and grit. He'll be playing his 160th cap (or whatever it is) as hard as his 1st cap. He could have retired after Russia and everyone (especially his family) would have applauded him. Yet he chose to continue to grind for club and country instead of taking it easy.
Based on his Croatian language interviews post Argentina, he's super motivated to win 3rd.
And Croatia goes as he goes. He won't let anyone dilly dally on the pitch.
Man this final is tough to call... have no attachment to either of these countries and am trying to assess the two 11s and I truly could see it going either way. Obviously Messi and Mbappe have been discussed to death, Alvarez looks the next most in form player as far as scoring and so maybe a slight firepower advantage there though Giroud seems to pop up and score at crazy moments even when he's playing badly and Griezmann has been a terrier all tournament.
Central midfields I don't see a lot to pick from, De Paul and Mac Allister have stood out as rock solid box to box players for me as have Rabiot and Tchouameni.
Maybe a bit more physical size and strength in the France backline against those two in form Argentina attackers? But they seem to have some kind of flu ripping through their camp.
What do everyone's predictions looks like?
Throwing a dart I'd probably lean slightly towards Argentina say 2-1 but obviously Mbappe could just go beast mode and blow that away.
I don't even know if I can watch the 3rd place game, hope I am wrong but expecting another snooze fest like their round robin game. Throw in the whistling... that's a toughie. Be nice to see Modric get a goal on his farewell
Man this final is tough to call... have no attachment to either of these countries and am trying to assess the two 11s and I truly could see it going either way. Obviously Messi and Mbappe have been discussed to death, Alvarez looks the next most in form player as far as scoring and so maybe a slight firepower advantage there though Giroud seems to pop up and score at crazy moments even when he's playing badly and Griezmann has been a terrier all tournament.
Central midfields I don't see a lot to pick from, De Paul and Mac Allister have stood out as rock solid box to box players for me as have Rabiot and Tchouameni.
Maybe a bit more physical size and strength in the France backline against those two in form Argentina attackers? But they seem to have some kind of flu ripping through their camp.
What do everyone's predictions looks like?
Throwing a dart I'd probably lean slightly towards Argentina say 2-1 but obviously Mbappe could just go beast mode and blow that away.
I don't even know if I can watch the 3rd place game, hope I am wrong but expecting another snooze fest like their round robin game. Throw in the whistling... that's a toughie. Be nice to see Modric get a goal on his farewell
I'm going with France.
I just think France are marginally better in almost every position. Sure, you can make the Messi/Mbappe call and go in Messi's favour and thats fair.
But I think France have a far more solid yet dynamic back 4, I'd argue that Griezmann is in the conversation for 'Player of the Tournament' in terms of the work he's done in that midfield.
Overall I just find France the better of the two sides, but again, we're talking marginal as all hell.
I think its going to be a cagey affair. Argentina know that they have to be positionally solid, not give anything away and essentially pray that Messi has some magic left in him.
I dont really have a dog in this fight, but seeing France get 3 times as many World Cups as England seems funny but the salt in the wound to Ronaldo seeing Messi lift the Cup? Theres value there too, its a shame he isnt still a Manchester United player, same with Pogba. Watching France lift the World Cup with a moody Pogba and a sulky Ronaldo would have been fun.
I think France are the better team, but Argentina have the horses that are more likely and capable of being game-breakers so long as the weaker links in the squad dont do anything stupid.
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