Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Major Major]

"Getting things done"

[Looch City]

It’s about time we annexed Kelowna.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by Slava

Aren’t you in BC?

I am. But I care about Alberta, I spent 36 years calling Calgary my home.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by kermitology

I am. But I care about Alberta, I spent 36 years calling Calgary my home.

You’ve got your own NDP problems to deal with.

When you get things fixed there give us a shout.

[Fuzz]

Holy ####, Danielle, Moreberta was just a joke! You read those words, and all you can think is "does this lunatic just think the other provinces will be like 'Oh, ya, go right ahead! Have at half our province, we don't mind at all!'" And somehow, people still think she has a brain worthy of leading our province. She does not. She is insane, and has, like, less than zero understanding of how the world works. She just comes up with ridiculous ideas and thinks the rest of reality should bend to her.

Sorry, but if you support this clown, you are as daft as she is. And that's pretty ####ing daft.

Spoiler!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Competent government, competent leader.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1194693739802849280

https://pressprogress.ca/calgary-rad...tish-columbia/

First of all, I never said the UCP or Smith were competent. But that illustrates exactly why this thread is so pointless these days. You can’t have an actual discussion about Alberta politics because as I said earlier you either are voting for the NDP or the UCP. There’s no room for middle ground and posters will just feel like they’re being shouted down.

And, just my opinion here, but these are the voters the NDP supporters (not just voters, but people donating money and time) should be trying to court. Instead, you make a comment about something the NDP did or note things you don’t care for about them, and it’s “why are you voting for the UCP?!?!”

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

First of all, I never said the UCP or Smith were competent. But that illustrates exactly why this thread is so pointless these days. You can’t have an actual discussion about Alberta politics because as I said earlier you either are voting for the NDP or the UCP. There’s no room for middle ground and posters will just feel like they’re being shouted down.

And, just my opinion here, but these are the voters the NDP supporters (not just voters, but people donating money and time) should be trying to court. Instead, you make a comment about something the NDP did or note things you don’t care for about them, and it’s “why are you voting for the UCP?!?!”

Isn’t this just the “I can’t vote for the NDP because an NDP supporter was mean to me” argument again?

It’s not my job (for example) to court you. You’ll vote for the NDP or the UCP based on the people you’re actually voting for and their platforms, I assume, or you’ll throw your hands up and waste your vote thinking wasting your vote in protest has ever made a difference. And personally, when I see people regurgitating the same points that have been discussed, explained, and reason multiple times (specifically on a message board where said people have been involved in the question) it just reads as disingenuous.

You can have an actual discussion, but why does anyone owe you the same conversation we’ve had 100 times over the last 6-7 years? Why is this thread pointless because you can’t have the same conversation for the 101 time? At a certain point, when is it disrespectful of everyone else’s time to demand these things be entertained or accuse them of shouting you down?

Explain how providing further evidence of Smith being incompetent with a simple, sarcastic “competent government, competent leader” comment is “shouting” you down.

[Roughneck]

We're a step away from hearing about the unforgivable act of the NDP's borrowing for operations again, purposefully ignoring the UCPs borrowing for operations (and the PCs borrowing for operations before them).

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Isn’t this just the “I can’t vote for the NDP because an NDP supporter was mean to me” argument again?

It’s not my job (for example) to court you. You’ll vote for the NDP or the UCP based on the people you’re actually voting for and their platforms, I assume, or you’ll throw your hands up and waste your vote thinking wasting your vote in protest has ever made a difference. And personally, when I see people regurgitating the same points that have been discussed, explained, and reason multiple times (specifically on a message board where said people have been involved in the question) it just reads as disingenuous.

You can have an actual discussion, but why does anyone owe you the same conversation we’ve had 100 times over the last 6-7 years? Why is this thread pointless because you can’t have the same conversation for the 101 time? At a certain point, when is it disrespectful of everyone else’s time to demand these things be entertained or accuse them of shouting you down?

Explain how providing further evidence of Smith being incompetent with a simple, sarcastic “competent government, competent leader” comment is “shouting” you down.

No, it’s not that though. It’s just sheer “whataboutism”. I say I’m not sure about the NDP and supporters say “I can’t believe you support the UCP”. It’s utterly pointless.

Originally Posted by Roughneck

We're a step away from hearing about the unforgivable act of the NDP's borrowing for operations again, purposefully ignoring the UCPs borrowing for operations (and the PCs borrowing for operations before them).

Hey, if the shoe fits. I’m not rehashing it, but there were lots of people who noticed this and called them out for it. It was a fiscal nightmare that is not just pushed away with “those other guys are bad”.

Anyway, I can see I’m just wasting my time in this thread and I really should know better! I just don’t see why my thought that I don’t like the UCP and I’m not enamoured with the NDP is so difficult to understand. Both can be true.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, it’s not that though. It’s just sheer “whataboutism”. I say I’m not sure about the NDP and supporters say “I can’t believe you support the UCP”. It’s utterly pointless.




Hey, if the shoe fits. I’m not rehashing it, but there were lots of people who noticed this and called them out for it. It was a fiscal nightmare that is not just pushed away with “those other guys are bad”.

Anyway, I can see I’m just wasting my time in this thread and I really should know better! I just don’t see why my thought that I don’t like the UCP and I’m not enamoured with the NDP is so difficult to understand. Both can be true.

I think you should respond to the posts about the NDP being discussed rather than the UCP being bashed. -3 was discussing the public sector bloating claim but rather than engage with that discussion you chose to engage with Redhot calling the UCP stupid.

So you are just as responsible for the content in this thread as others are. There’s an interesting debate to be had on the potential fiscal stewardship of the next NDP government and if you trust them enough to vote for them.

However It’s important that you do your due diligence and find a way to be comfortable voting NDP or your Orphan cohort in Calgary will be responsible for Smith winning. There is no abstain from the choice here so in the end the question will be who do you trust more so at some point you need to compare and select the least worst of the two options. Don’t screw it up, you have probably never had more political power then this election. 8% of the population in Calgary representing about 1/3rd of the provinces population control the outcome. Your vote is worth 50 times it’s usual amount.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Looch City

It’s about time we annexed Kelowna.

An Anschluss of sorts? Maybe take a page out of the Russian playbook?

"There are many Culturally Natural Albertans in Kelowna...they need to be brought back into the fold!"

The Premier who tried that would have to be certifiably insane....fortunately...

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Locke

An Anschluss of sorts? Maybe take a page out of the Russian playbook?

"There are many Culturally Natural Albertans in Kelowna...they need to be brought back into the fold!"

The Premier who tried that would have to be certifiably insane....fortunately...

You start with Invermere, it can be Crimea. We go in hold a sham election in the summer and the declare that they democratically chose to leave.

[Fuzz]

Start with something totally undesirable, like the west of the Crowsnest pass. They ain't fighting back for that.

[Faust]

To let Smith be Smith, or not to let Smith be Smith? That is the UCP question

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...tity-1.6681245

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GGG

You start with Invermere, it can be Crimea. We go in hold a sham election in the summer and the declare that they democratically chose to leave.

Thats the ticket! Get in there and start replacing License plates! They'll welcome us with open arms!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, it’s not that though. It’s just sheer “whataboutism”. I say I’m not sure about the NDP and supporters say “I can’t believe you support the UCP”. It’s utterly pointless.

Hey, if the shoe fits. I’m not rehashing it, but there were lots of people who noticed this and called them out for it. It was a fiscal nightmare that is not just pushed away with “those other guys are bad”.

Anyway, I can see I’m just wasting my time in this thread and I really should know better! I just don’t see why my thought that I don’t like the UCP and I’m not enamoured with the NDP is so difficult to understand. Both can be true.

Nobody said “I can’t believe you support the UCP.” The only people that has been directed to is people who actually loudly supported the UCP.

I just don’t think you approach these conversations directly and honestly. Not that I think you’re hiding your intentions, but it’s easy to say “the UCP are terrible but the NDP are also underwhelming!” while spending 90% of your effort criticizing the NDP. As I said to Dion, actions speak louder than words. Things aren’t lost to the void as soon as you post them, so what is someone supposed to think when you spend most of your time criticizing the NDP and barely mention the UCP outside of a “oh fyi UCP also bad” hedge after paragraphs of complaining about the NDP? Even if what you say is true and your focus being primarily on the NDP is accidental or some effort to bring “balance,” who are you to then throw your hands up and say “oh why did I waste my time!”? Why is it everyone else’s fault that you’re misunderstood time after time?

Whether you like it or not, it’s the UCP or the NDP. “Ugh I can’t decide because they’re both bad!” is just a very lame position for any educated voter, as the NDP performed better by even conservative financial measurements than the UCP did. One is bringing up Alberta Sovereignty and buying unapproved children’s medicine from Dr.Oz while creating budgets that actually increased the debt vs what the NDP’s budget would have given us, and your position is “gee, both bad!”

LOL. Come on. You’ve yet to come close to showing how the NDP is even “as bad” as the UCP, so pretending it’s a hard decision is nonsense.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Start with something totally undesirable, like the west of the Crowsnest pass. They ain't fighting back for that.

You guys can have Fort St John

[Reggie Dunlop]

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think you should respond to the posts about the NDP being discussed rather than the UCP being bashed. -3 was discussing the public sector bloating claim but rather than engage with that discussion you chose to engage with Redhot calling the UCP stupid.

So you are just as responsible for the content in this thread as others are. There’s an interesting debate to be had on the potential fiscal stewardship of the next NDP government and if you trust them enough to vote for them.

However It’s important that you do your due diligence and find a way to be comfortable voting NDP or your Orphan cohort in Calgary will be responsible for Smith winning. There is no abstain from the choice here so in the end the question will be who do you trust more so at some point you need to compare and select the least worst of the two options. Don’t screw it up, you have probably never had more political power then this election. 8% of the population in Calgary representing about 1/3rd of the provinces population control the outcome. Your vote is worth 50 times it’s usual amount.

I was going to post about the public sector bloating and that reply. I just think it’s the wrong metric. Firstly, to look at it over a decade isn’t really accurate. But second, and probably more important, is that they hired a lot of new employees across the sectors in general. People I know in parks were driving around with nothing to do (their words, not mine). They had people hired and paid with literally no job duties. It’s pure ideology, and frankly laughable that people would characterize this as somehow prudent or responsible.

And on that fiscal front, the carbon tax was terribly implemented. All those funds flowed to general revenue which added a few billion to the budget and they still couldn’t manage to stick to it. I know it’s not in the romanticized version of their government, but it’s financially concerning to say the least.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nobody said “I can’t believe you support the UCP.” The only people that has been directed to is people who actually loudly supported the UCP.

I just don’t think you approach these conversations directly and honestly. Not that I think you’re hiding your intentions, but it’s easy to say “the UCP are terrible but the NDP are also underwhelming!” while spending 90% of your effort criticizing the NDP. As I said to Dion, actions speak louder than words. Things aren’t lost to the void as soon as you post them, so what is someone supposed to think when you spend most of your time criticizing the NDP and barely mention the UCP outside of a “oh fyi UCP also bad” hedge after paragraphs of complaining about the NDP? Even if what you say is true and your focus being primarily on the NDP is accidental or some effort to bring “balance,” who are you to then throw your hands up and say “oh why did I waste my time!”? Why is it everyone else’s fault that you’re misunderstood time after time?

Whether you like it or not, it’s the UCP or the NDP. “Ugh I can’t decide because they’re both bad!” is just a very lame position for any educated voter, as the NDP performed better by even conservative financial measurements than the UCP did. One is bringing up Alberta Sovereignty and buying unapproved children’s medicine from Dr.Oz while creating budgets that actually increased the debt vs what the NDP’s budget would have given us, and your position is “gee, both bad!”

LOL. Come on. You’ve yet to come close to showing how the NDP is even “as bad” as the UCP, so pretending it’s a hard decision is nonsense.

Haha, and join the anti-UCP circle-jerk for what reason? I’m not bothering to bash the UCP here because it’s taken care of. I don’t see the point in piling on, just to make sure that you know I don’t like them.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Slava

Haha, and join the anti-UCP circle-jerk for what reason? I’m not bothering to bash the UCP here because it’s taken care of. I don’t see the point in piling on, just to make sure that you know I don’t like them.

So you’re criticizing the NDP because you don’t feel that NDP bashing is being taken care of and that’s your job?

Isn’t it weird to you to admittedly take the role of a contrarian and then complain when you get treated like a contrarian? It’s weird to me.