[PGT] Flames lose to Hurricanes 3-2

[dammage79]

There was always going to be a good chance the team would struggle in the 1st year of a massive retool. And let's not undersell how massive losing 3 core players is to a teams dynamic. Wouldn't matter who you brought in (I think tree did the best job re tooling any GM could possibly have done in the same situation), chances would be high.

I think what we saw out of the gates in games 1-7 is more what the team is than whatever they are right now. But you can't deny that it's not looking good for the 25 game runway to get rolling.

I think it was the Avs who struggled at one point in their build and their people said the leagues is like a thermometer, 1 degree difference up or down means the difference between a lottery pick and a playoff spot.

Might just not be the Flames year this year. It happens. But font go expecting massive changes, Tree has shown to be far too pragmatic about these things.

Although we know full well he's still trying to find some top 6 wing help.


Right now, it's not Sutter. It's not tree. It's the players. They're a mess on the ice. The only thing Sutter should be doing more of is moving more players put of the line up.

There's easily 5 players in the forward group who can sit for multiple games and wouldn't affect the on ice results negatively.

1.Mangiapane is culprit numero uno
2. Dillon Dube (has really not taken off , at all in his 3 years)
3. Lucic (Time it seems has finally caught up)
4. Lewis (Just one giant ball of a long exhale of Meh)
5. Rooney (he's sitting and shouldn't never suit up again IMO.)

Won't even cut into Marky. That's been beaten to death already.

Fact is, this season has a huge chance of being a write iff, and that's okay. At least for me. Has nothing to do with the draft and everything to do with possibly one of the toughest off seasons a teams had to work through in decades.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Ive never seen so many people turn on a coach so fast as some members have here on Sutter

Yeah with the schedule being so odd, some injuries to key players ... some rough goaltending to start the season people are pretty quick to fire a coach and trade members of the team's core.

Wonder if they'll retract any of this silliness when the Flames win 7 of 8 against middling teams and start their way up the standings?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CroCop

This is not a playoff team but there’s always next year.

They're literally tied for 8th. Silly comment. Guessing it won't age well.

[dammage79]

Oh I also want to add that as amazing Zads has been, and he has been pretty freaking fantastic, it's never a good thing when Zadorov is your best player consistently. Says a lot IMO.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah with the schedule being so odd, some injuries to key players ... some rough goaltending to start the season people are pretty quick to fire a coach and trade members of the team's core.

Wonder if they'll retract any of this silliness when the Flames win 7 of 8 against middling teams and start their way up the standings?

Not with this version of Markstrom in net.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dammage79

There was always going to be a good chance the team would struggle in the 1st year of a massive retool. And let's not undersell how massive losing 3 core players is to a teams dynamic. Wouldn't matter who you brought in (I think tree did the best job re tooling any GM could possibly have done in the same situation), chances would be high.

I think what we saw out of the gates in games 1-7 is more what the team is than whatever they are right now. But you can't deny that it's not looking good for the 25 game runway to get rolling.

I think it was the Avs who struggled at one point in their build and their people said the leagues is like a thermometer, 1 degree difference up or down means the difference between a lottery pick and a playoff spot.

Might just not be the Flames year this year. It happens. But font go expecting massive changes, Tree has shown to be far too pragmatic about these things.

Although we know full well he's still trying to find some top 6 wing help.


Right now, it's not Sutter. It's not tree. It's the players. They're a mess on the ice. The only thing Sutter should be doing more of is moving more players put of the line up.

There's easily 5 players in the forward group who can sit for multiple games and wouldn't affect the on ice results negatively.

1.Mangiapane is culprit numero uno
2. Dillon Dube (has really not taken off , at all in his 3 years)
3. Lucic (Time it seems has finally caught up)
4. Lewis (Just one giant ball of a long exhale of Meh)
5. Rooney (he's sitting and shouldn't never suit up again IMO.)

Won't even cut into Marky. That's been beaten to death already.

Fact is, this season has a huge chance of being a write iff, and that's okay. At least for me. Has nothing to do with the draft and everything to do with possibly one of the toughest off seasons a teams had to work through in decades.

I don't really agree that it is okay for them to write off this season. We're one of the oldest teams in the NHL with multiple big long-term contracts for guys into their 30s. The window is right now.

It's not really fair to compare them to those struggling Avs team because that Av's team had a young core with MacK, oReilly Duchene, Landeskog, johnson and barrie all being early 20s

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They're literally tied for 8th. Silly comment. Guessing it won't age well.

They still have a chance, but it's far from a sure thing.
Flames will be battling with Kings, Oilers, Blues, Preds, Wild and Canucks for 2-3 playoff spots.

Plus, is fighting for a wildcard spot where you want to be as one of the oldest teams in the NHL with multiple guys signed longed term well into their 30's.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by traptor

They still have a chance, but it's far from a sure thing.
Flames will be battling with Kings, Oilers, Blues, Preds, Wild and Canucks for 2-3 playoff spots.

Plus, is fighting for a wildcard spot where you want to be as one of the oldest teams in the NHL with multiple guys signed longed term well into their 30's.

After massive change?
Not ideal but not entirely unexpected

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Not with this version of Markstrom in net.

So he is what he is? He won't rebound to his career average?

That's it?

I'll take the over on .889 save percentage? Do you want the under?

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

After massive change?
Not ideal but not entirely unexpected

Yeah for sure. Hoped things would click sooner.
Now I'm just hoping they click eventually at all.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Ive never seen so many people turn on a coach so fast as some members have here on Sutter

I've not turned on him. I know he's a better coach than this. For whatever reason he's doing Gulutzan-like things right now which is getting in the way of winning games. I think in his mind he's doing the right things now that will pay off in the 2nd half of the season but the results haven't been there and there's no indication that things are going to turn around. They are playing bland, uninspired hockey and I don't see a flick of the switch change where players like Huberdeau turns into a fantastic two way forward at this stage of his career. Sutter needs to let him play his game as he did with Gaudreau. The way they are playing right now the only way they can win games is to get elite goaltending and that's not going to happen with Markstrom this year and Vladar's latest efforts were fantastic but no wins because the margins are so slim playing this type of hockey.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by traptor

I don't really agree that it is okay for them to write off this season. We're one of the oldest teams in the NHL with multiple big long-term contracts for guys into their 30s. The window is right now.

It's not really fair to compare them to those struggling Avs team because that Av's team had a young core with MacK, oReilly Duchene, Landeskog, johnson and barrie all being early 20s

You're misunderstanding me. I said it's okay for me that this season might be a write off. Not that the team thinks that in any way, they don't, or shouldn't.

And on the Avs front, I'm not talking about the team itself. I'm speaking more to the parity in the league and how easy it is for any team in the league to either skyrocket or drop like a rock in the standings in different seasons. It doesn't take much at all. Team could be the exact same roster as last season and still end up being a lottery team simply by results of how the other 31 teams conducted their business and how they perform on a season to season basis.

I guess what I'm saying is, things aren't linear even if expectations are.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I've not turned on him. I know he's a better coach than this. For whatever reason he's doing Gulutzan-like things right now which is getting in the way of winning games. I think in his mind he's doing the right things now that will pay off in the 2nd half of the season but the results haven't been there and there's no indication that things are going to turn around. They are playing bland, uninspired hockey and I don't see a flick of the switch change where players like Huberdeau turns into a fantastic two way forward at this stage of his career. Sutter needs to let him play his game as he did with Gaudreau. The way they are playing right now the only way they can win games is to get elite goaltending and that's not going to happen with Markstrom this year and Vladar's latest efforts were fantastic but no wins because the margins are so slim playing this type of hockey.

They didn't generate much in Tampa ... but in Florida and Philly they looked pretty good.

End of the trip though they just didn't have it. Good 2nd against Pittsburgh, good first against Washington and a good 2nd against Carolina. That's 1/3 for three straight games.

But it's not a ten game streak not creating offence or driving play at all.

It's not popular to say, but they seem to be out of gas.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They didn't generate much in Tampa ... but in Florida and Philly they looked pretty good.

End of the trip though they just didn't have it. Good 2nd against Pittsburgh, good first against Washington and a good 2nd against Carolina. That's 1/3 for three straight games.

But it's not a ten game streak not creating offence or driving play at all.

It's not popular to say, but they seem to be out of gas.

Too many excuses. They just aren't a good team right now.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Too many excuses. They just aren't a good team right now.

That's silly

Teams get tired. They looked tired. They're likely tired.

It's not too many it's the one that I think is valid.

Doesn't change the fact that they are hurting in chemistry and offensive flow but it's certainly a valid reason for why they were standing still and turning the puck over a lot yesterday.

You can ignore an obvious issue if you want ... fill your boots. But I'll choose to acknowledge what's pretty clear. I'm not a player it's not a bad look on me to point out the obvious.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dammage79

You're misunderstanding me. I said it's okay for me that this season might be a write off. Not that the team thinks that in any way, they don't, or shouldn't.

And on the Avs front, I'm not talking about the team itself. I'm speaking more to the parity in the league and how easy it is for any team in the league to either skyrocket or drop like a rock in the standings in different seasons. It doesn't take much at all. Team could be the exact same roster as last season and still end up being a lottery team simply by results of how the other 31 teams conducted their business and how they perform on a season to season basis.

I guess what I'm saying is, things aren't linear even if expectations are.

Yeah, I agree that there is huge parity in the league. Things can change quickly, even within a season. There is enough time left that the Flames could still end up top of the division or they could be getting a top 5 pick. There are alot of teams with enough talent to do some damage on any given stretch.

I mean look at Vegas. They didn't make the playoffs last year and now they look like a juggernaut again. However, top teams are top teams because they consistently get there. Vegas had the one slip year but other then that they have been solid.

The problem with the flames situation is that I feel like they have a very limited runway given the age of the new core. The team might have 3 legit kicks at the can, before things fizzle off.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So he is what he is? He won't rebound to his career average?

That's it?

I'll take the over on .889 save percentage? Do you want the under?

I'll take the under on .911 which is his career average.

[CroCop]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They're literally tied for 8th. Silly comment. Guessing it won't age well.

I’m gonna stand behind it. After quarter season we are outside looking in the west, 5th in division, 20th overall and that is after a franchise best start.

Our goalie is broken. The forward group has no finish, chemistry or fire. The D has been an absolute disaster in our own zone. Finally our head coach is suddenly showing signs that the game is moving past him.

The Flames need to be a lot better to put themselves into a playoff spot and keep it but only a little worse to fall into a lottery position and the way they are trending lends credence to my earlier statement. A wasted year and a top 3 pick could be a real good thing for the franchise after this year.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Some interesting comments from Bieksa and Hrudey last night...

They thought that the top line was allowed to play differently last year - the other 3 lines had to play Sutter hockey, but the top line was allowed to create.

This year, no line is allowed - they are all playing dump and chase.

I think there is some truth in this

Agree. Gaudreau carried the puck in. He never dumped and chased. He could dipsy doodle and it seemed no opposition could get the puck off his stick.

[Strange Brew]

Veteran, accomplished coach with a veteran, not quite so accomplished team. This may be a popular take, but I’m prepared to give them the season. No reason to make any snap decisions right now.