Darryl Sutter needs to deploy better lines - STAT

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Wrong.

No it’s debatable which is why we are having this conversation. I know you love Sutter and think he does no wrong but there is likely more nuance to it. I never said Sutter is fully responsive for teams bad play. The players need to be better but there is good arguments that he’s not putting the forwards in the best position to succeed.

Two things that I see are key to this. First is his insistence on playing low skill vets with his offensive players (or just giving them too many minutes) Second is more a style question in that is he deploying players like Huberdeau properly. I’ve seen enough interviews with him where he goes over the style he expects players to do and that the new arrivals have to follow his system. I am not sure he will ever give Huberdeau license to be creative.

[Yikes]

Let's see how he manages the lines yet again today. Sutter has his pets, we all know who they are. More interesting to see who starts in net.

[DazzlinDino]

It might be that Sutter wants this team to be completely committed to the defensive side of things. We lost in the playoffs last season when we got away from structured play. He might be trying to mold this team before leaning on lines that can create more offense. Team is probably letting in too many goals for Sutter's liking. Sutter knows as well as anyone, that he can put the skilled players together, we saw that last season.

[Erick Estrada]

Sutter does need to get his act together. It seems like a lot of players are going through the motions right now and I’m sure some are questioning his decisions. I don’t see the buy-in and this team is starting to look like the Kings teams on the back half of their Cup wins where they are tired of the act. There’s still a lot of season left and I hope Sutter can figure things out because these lines and his ice time deployment simply aren’t working and the players aren’t believing in what he’s doing.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Sutter does need to get his act together. It seems like a lot of players are going through the motions right now and I’m sure some are questioning his decisions. I don’t see the buy-in and this team is starting to look like the Kings teams on the back half of their Cup wins where they are tired of the act. There’s still a lot of season left and I hope Sutter can figure things out because these lines and his ice time deployment simply aren’t working and the players aren’t believing in what he’s doing.

Bingo scoffed at the "going through the motions" assertion, but I agree to an extent. The qualifier is that going through the motions doesn't necessarily mean lazy, slow play.

At the NHL level it can just mean lacking that extra step or initiative to make things happen creatively, which is critical at this level. I kind of see that a bit, myself. They are skating hard, they are playing hard, but they're missing just that extra umph, the extra swagger and drive that makes an unthreatening 3 on 2 a threatening 3 on 2, etc.

[Yamer]

Sutter's made some strange decisions in the first quarter of the season and they quite clearly aren't making the team better. However, the new star forward started the season injured, they're missing one of their top 4 defensemen (from last season, anyway), Markstrom has been anything but consistent, and they've injected - essentially - an entirely new core.

That isn't to say that Sutter doesn't need to start being part of the solution rather than the problem, but my expectations were and remain that it would take about 30-35 games to get a grasp of the cohesiveness of this team.

This Flames are structured to compete now, and with the recent extensions to players and the coach Sutter isn't going anywhere. I still trust the process.

[Kasi]

Thing is Gaudreau is at the heart of it a pick carrier. So him getting the license to be creative worked very well most of the time. He carries the puck and does creative stuff and Tkachuk and Lindholm did the dirty work and were there to receive his passes. And it led to some very high puck control stats and a huge plus/minus. Now sure it struggles against some top lines but against most lines it dominated, especially when the Flames could play matchups.

Now Huberdeau I think is just a less structured type of player. I think someone in another thread said Kucherov on Tampa is similar. Not so much about puck control but more free wheeling and chaotic. That needs both players who can work with that style and a system that allows that type of play. Will Sutter be flexible enough to let that happen? Or just force Huberdeau to be a defensively responsible winger. He can’t carry as good as Gaudreau so it’s going to be a massive downgrade.

The only other option is to staple him to a good puck carrier which I think is why Backlund is being tried but he just doesnt have the skill game to finish. Maybe it would work if their other winger was a sniper type, but Coleman is certainly not that. Backlund/Huberdeau/Toffoli maybe? Don’t know but if they’re making Backlund and Huberdeau a pair they need to give them someone better than Coleman.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Bingo scoffed at the "going through the motions" assertion, but I agree to an extent. The qualifier is that going through the motions doesn't necessarily mean lazy, slow play.

At the NHL level it can just mean lacking that extra step or initiative to make things happen creatively, which is critical at this level. I kind of see that a bit, myself. They are skating hard, they are playing hard, but they're missing just that extra umph, the extra swagger and drive that makes an unthreatening 3 on 2 a threatening 3 on 2, etc.

Absolutely. They aren’t floating but we aren’t seeing the will to out-skate and win puck battles like Sutter teams do at their peak. They are punching the clock. Doing their jobs but not to the fullest extent. Kadri for example looks nowhere near the player he was in the first month of the season. His effort level is nowhere near what it was early in the season. Lindholm looks lost out there offensively. He’s really missing a set up man on his line.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

yeah they have squandered countless odd man rushes and turned them into nothing

it is a team that isn't working off each other and lacking inspiration to be creative when there is open ice there for them

screams a group that is not having fun or isn't getting along, at least with their line mates . I go back to Sutter for making the games tougher on the skill guys by spreading them out , revoking ice time quickly while showing favor toward the unskilled vets that he knows

winning helps you break out of that but the skilled players have to be put in positions to succeed and given more ice time so that they can make a difference

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by yikes

give him long enough and he will coach this squad back to the 80's.

89?

[Kasi]

Not sure why you’d say 80s. 80s was the highest scoring period in NHL history. Did you mean to say the 90s because this style feels like this. Ofc if you play that style hockey you better have a goalie to back it up.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Not sure why you’d say 80s. 80s was the highest scoring period in NHL history. Did you mean to say the 90s because this style feels like this. Ofc if you play that style hockey you better have a goalie to back it up.

Should not have been decade specific I suppose, "back in time" to whatever era "Sutter hockey" and the "Sutter approach" to player management might have worked. The comment Tortorella made the other day "it's a young and dumb league" actually made me think that it's old school coaches like Torts and Sutter that are the dumb ones. Basically Tortorella telling the world his time is done....how he manages to keep getting work is amazing.

[Jason14h]

One thing for sure , this team is sure boring to watch this season compared to last season

[AustinL_NHL]

How is Yikes not banned?

Lol one of the most obvious trolls on this board

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

How is Yikes not banned?

Lol one of the most obvious trolls on this board

I am right here...how are you not banned?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yikes

Should not have been decade specific I suppose, "back in time" to whatever era "Sutter hockey" and the "Sutter approach" to player management might have worked. The comment Tortorella made the other day "it's a young and dumb league" actually made me think that it's old school coaches like Torts and Sutter that are the dumb ones. Basically Tortorella telling the world his time is done....how he manages to keep getting work is amazing.

Reigning Jack Adams Trophy winner.

You really need to learn when to let it go.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Reigning Jack Adams Trophy winner.

You really need to learn when to let it go.

I don't like Sutter as the coach of the Flames going forward and I don't like Markstrom as the starter and that is that.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Reigning Jack Adams Trophy winner.

You really need to learn when to let it go.

Well that trophy really helped him coach in that Edmonton series. Yes he had a great regular season last year but the endless appeals to authority get old. Do you think that he’s the reigning Jack Adams trophy matters to the locker room? Many coaches in every sport leagues have gone from a great fit to gone extremely fast. If there is any constant in sports it is that pretty much all coaches have an expiry date. And with Sutter we know it’s true since we have seen it before. Now not saying this is the issue right now since we only get bits and pieces of the locker room through media interviews right now. But the play on ice isn’t exactly inspiring confidence on that front.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yikes

I don't like Sutter as the coach of the Flames going forward and I don't like Markstrom as the starter and that is that.

Which is fine - say that (though you already have, about 100 times)

But when you (repeatedly) make ridiculous posts about the reigning coach of the year, and likely future hall of famer, not being a good or effective coach, it's idiotic.

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Which is fine - say that (though you already have, about 100 times)

But when you (repeatedly) make ridiculous posts about the reigning coach of the year, and likely future hall of famer, not being a good or effective coach, it's idiotic.

Idiotic? Let's see how the rancher handles the lines yet again today and who he starts in net. As far as coach of the year is concerned, he rode a hot line and a hot goalie to win it. Hall of famer?...1 million %.