Discussion on improving the league.

[BagoPucks]

Toronto owes me 16 M

[MJK]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Let's not over-react to the fact that I couldn't remember who won the cup.

Chill…I said ‘We’ because I couldn’t remember either. You don't think that’s a ‘problem’? Perhaps we start by solving that one?

There has been a ton of great dialogue here but you still seem totally closed off to the remote possibility of expansion when it’s clear that it ain’t just me and a cheese that think it would be good.

It can work and the two guys that I think are creative enough to make it work with a ton of experience are me and Cheese.

But you already shot down us being involved, so is the expansion conversation dead?

[Harry Lime]

So far I like the idea of incentives for making the conference finals. Maybe auxiliary picks after the 1st round? Also, a way to increase the relative value of older players would be good. 35+ contracts?

[Harry Lime]

For a lot of us, it's really hard to trade for 1st rounders, without completely crippling the team.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

So far I like the idea of incentives for making the conference finals. Maybe auxiliary picks after the 1st round? Also, a way to increase the relative value of older players would be good. 35+ contracts?

I think this will be the key to turning over rich asset teams. In the real world there is benefits to winning. Money, UFAs wanting to play for you, players wanting to stay. There isn’t enough incentive to push teams to take a chance and try and win. I’ve always been someone that asset build first but there has to be a point where you flip a switch and make a run. But every league I’ve been in first place wins cash. That’s the incentive in those leagues I’ve been in. No cash in this league so why do I want to take a chance and flip long term assets to win. Not much reason for it so the rich always looking to protect their assets and stay rich.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by MJK

Chill…I said ‘We’ because I couldn’t remember either. You don't think that’s a ‘problem’? Perhaps we start by solving that one?

There has been a ton of great dialogue here but you still seem totally closed off to the remote possibility of expansion when it’s clear that it ain’t just me and a cheese that think it would be good.

It can work and the two guys that I think are creative enough to make it work with a ton of experience are me and Cheese.

But you already shot down us being involved, so is the expansion conversation dead?

I don't view it as dead but I'm also hearing from others some hesitancy and a desire to focus on a more important problem

And no to be blunt I don't think you and Cheese are the right ones to figure it out because you are entering it with a biased view based on overall mindset that we "should just do it". And it's the same reason why I also stated it should not be me. It should be someone that is going to take a proper and balanced view.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I think this will be the key to turning over rich asset teams. In the real world there is benefits to winning. Money, UFAs wanting to play for you, players wanting to stay. There isn’t enough incentive to push teams to take a chance and try and win. I’ve always been someone that asset build first but there has to be a point where you flip a switch and make a run. But every league I’ve been in first place wins cash. That’s the incentive in those leagues I’ve been in. No cash in this league so why do I want to take a chance and flip long term assets to win. Not much reason for it so the rich always looking to protect their assets and stay rich.

Do you mean fake cash (e.g. cap in the game) or real cash?
Just clarifying.

[MJK]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Stop trading your 1sts, future picks and future cap!

Grant, again disagree if this is your advice for all GMs. I’ve sold every 1st, every prospect many many times to make a good team every year to compete.

Just simply not good advice IMO. For some maybe, for active guys, no.

Look at Nashville…trades stuff away and is the best team in the CPHL last year by far because he’s trying to win. Paying for it this year but he’ll be able turn it around (like Columbus) and compete again quick.

He’s active and Active GMs can build teams quickly.

The name of the game is trading an asset to get more in return. Rinse repeat.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

For a lot of us, it's really hard to trade for 1st rounders, without completely crippling the team.

Totally. The question though is why some teams ALWAYS trade their firsts.
It's self inflicted.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by MJK

Grant, again disagree if this is your advice for all GMs. I’ve sold every 1st, every prospect many many times to make a good team every year to compete.

Just simply not good advice IMO. For some maybe, for active guys, no.

Look at Nashville…trades stuff away and is the best team in the CPHL last year by far because he’s trying to win. Paying for it this year but he’ll be able turn it around (like Columbus) and compete again quick.

He’s active and Active GMs can build teams quickly.

The name of the game is trading an asset to get more in return. Rinse repeat.

I think you are an elite trader who wins far more of your deals than loses, including when you trade your 1st.

But I think that's more an exception.

You build your teams through being a VERY good negotiator. I don't know how easy that is for others to replicate.

In contrast I win some deals, lose others, and I largely am good at the game because of other things such as prospect knowledge and general ruthless approach to asset management. I have certain rules I follow for myself against those things that I do not deviate from. And I benefit because I add valuable assets to my organization constantly for free that I can then see appreciate or use as trade capital.

Different approaches

[MJK]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't view it as dead but I'm also hearing from others some hesitancy and a desire to focus on a more important problem

And no to be blunt I don't think you and Cheese are the right ones to figure it out because you are entering it with a biased view based on overall mindset that we "should just do it".

I’m not biased. I really wish you wouldn’t make such a massive assumption. I am all for it but I get the concerns, there needs to be a balance.

I’m a creative fellow and can think outside the box and there are a million ways this can be fun and can actually work while addressing your concerns. I just don’t think you can see that at all.

[MJK]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think you are an elite trader who wins far more of your deals than loses, including when you trade your 1st.

But I think that's more an exception.

You build your teams through being a VERY good negotiator. I don't know how easy that is for others to replicate.

In contrast I win some deals, lose others, and I largely am good at the game because of other things such as prospect knowledge and general ruthless approach to asset management. I have certain rules I follow for myself against those things that I do not deviate from. And I benefit because I add valuable assets to my organization constantly for free that I can then see appreciate or use as trade capital.

Different approaches

People hate me. I don’t talk to anyone.

I prefer the term wizard

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Do you mean fake cash (e.g. cap in the game) or real cash?
Just clarifying.

Real money for first in my other leagues. This league has no cash for winning so what’s pushing you to win besides maybe bragging rights?

In the NHL owners makes money winning to cup and going far in the playoffs. This is why NHL owners often refuse to rebuild

In a league with not much incentive to win the mindset becomes long term asset management as the one and only thing that matters. Let’s try and come up with a rule or 2 that pushes GMs to think winning over stockpiling assets.

I’m ok with the rules and being patient but if others quit because they don’t want to grind it out maybe we balance it out a bit.

[MJK]

Ok real context scenario. What’s a more realistic approach to winning and building assists.

#1 Doing your homework and believe that you win every trade

#2 Wait 5+ years for 1sts and prospects and hope they turn into something

I pick option 1 all day until I get bored and make myself draft (circa 2022)

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Do you mean fake cash (e.g. cap in the game) or real cash?
Just clarifying.

Fake cash (cap) might be better than a pick as an incentive. It means that the top four teams are better positioned to hold onto a veteran and increase the value of vets slightly in the league as a side benefit.

Also, easy to implement.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by MJK

I’m not biased. I really wish you wouldn’t make such a massive assumption. I am all for it but I get the concerns, there needs to be a balance.

I’m a creative fellow and can think outside the box and there are a million ways this can be fun and can actually work while addressing your concerns. I just don’t think you can see that at all.

Keep in mind I'm saying the same thing about myself.
It's clear to me that in this discussion that we have people who have very strong views. On both sides.
I don't think those are the right folks to lead this process.

[Cambam8]

[QUOTE=Jiri Hrdina;8500446]Totally. The question though is why some teams ALWAYS trade their firsts.
It's self inflicted.[/QUOTE

I can't speak for others but if u don't have a top 2 pick most cases u will wait years for a playable rating, sometimes giving yourself a chance to win now outweighs the what if game. Preference I guess , also I get the cupboards empty sceniro but active GM's will always bounce back.

[Jiri Hrdina]

[QUOTE=Cambam8;8500459]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Totally. The question though is why some teams ALWAYS trade their firsts.
It's self inflicted.[/QUOTE

I can't speak for others but if u don't have a top 2 pick most cases u will wait years for a playable rating, sometimes giving yourself a chance to win now outweighs the what if game. Preference I guess , also I get the cupboards empty sceniro but active GM's will always bounce back.

The value of picks and prospects is less about playable ratings and more about trade capital. It's the asset value that matters.
As GMs trade that stuff they are constantly reducing their future trade capital.

[MJK]

[QUOTE=Cambam8;8500459]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Totally. The question though is why some teams ALWAYS trade their firsts.
It's self inflicted.[/QUOTE

I can't speak for others but if u don't have a top 2 pick most cases u will wait years for a playable rating, sometimes giving yourself a chance to win now outweighs the what if game. Preference I guess , also I get the cupboards empty sceniro but active GM's will always bounce back.

Hey buddy, sent you a message about your 1st….

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by MJK

Ok real context scenario. What’s a more realistic approach to winning and building assists.

#1 Doing your homework and believe that you win every trade

#2 Wait 5+ years for 1sts and prospects and hope they turn into something

I pick option 1 all day until I get bored and make myself draft (circa 2022)

Option 3. Stockpile draft picks and prospects then flip the switch and build a winner by using those assets as currency