Juuso Valimaki: "I really enjoy hockey again"

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Good for him. I hope he succeeds. Sometimes it just isn't a good fit for whatever reason. Hope his career takes off.

It's nice to hear from a guy who was not having much fun, who was able to turn it around and is enjoying paying again.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

The angst is probably exacerbated by the fact that 3 of our top 7 D are out.

The other exacerbating factor is the number of quality players that the Flames have lost for nothing or next to nothing. To name a few:

Savard
St. Louis
Iginla
Gio
Bennett
Gaudreau

Will Valimaki be the latest member of that list? Time will tell.

[Jiri Hrdina]

^I wouldn't include Sam Bennett in that. They got a 2nd rounder and a 2nd round prospect. That's not next to nothing.
But you could also add Regehr and Kipper to the list.

[scotty2hotty]

JS Giguere? Did we get anything for him?

I can’t remember

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

JS Giguere? Did we get anything for him?

I can’t remember

2nd round pick but may as well be nothing when you look at the career he went on to have.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^I wouldn't include Sam Bennett in that. They got a 2nd rounder and a 2nd round prospect. That's not next to nothing.
But you could also add Regehr and Kipper to the list.

Regehr yes, but Kipper retired so it's not like the Flames missed out on quality years that he gave to another team.

The return for Bennett was very little for a quality 2nd line center. Albeit, Sam was playing like a 3rd or 4th liner during most of his time here...

[dino7c]

Sam Bennett has 2 goals in 13 games and is a -5 despite a very easy soft schedule for the Panthers.

He started at a ridiculous pace in Florida but he seems to be going back to inconsistent Sam Bennett. He is also paid pretty handsomely now.

Quality second line center is a pretty big stretch

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The other exacerbating factor is the number of quality players that the Flames have lost for nothing or next to nothing. To name a few:

Savard
St. Louis
Iginla
Gio
Bennett
Gaudreau

Will Valimaki be the latest member of that list? Time will tell.

Is this list worse than other teams, or is it standard? Or maybe it's much shorter than many teams?

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

^I wouldn't include Sam Bennett in that. They got a 2nd rounder and a 2nd round prospect. That's not next to nothing.
But you could also add Regehr and Kipper to the list.

Kiprusoff ended his career with Calgary - how did we get nothing for him?

On a similar note, I wouldn't put Iginla on the list either - they made a mess of the trade, but they did try (poorly) to get assets for him.

Savard and St Louis are the prime examples, and it's REALLY early to be putting Valimaki on a list with them.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is this list worse than other teams, or is it standard? Or maybe it's much shorter than many teams?



Kiprusoff ended his career with Calgary - how did we get nothing for him?

On a similar note, I wouldn't put Iginla on the list either - they made a mess of the trade, but they did try (poorly) to get assets for him.

Savard and St Louis are the prime examples, and it's REALLY early to be putting Valimaki on a list with them.

Calgary and Toronto had a deal involving Kipper his last season, but he vetoed to remain out West.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2013/04/...prusoff-nonis/

No mention of what the return would be, and it's really not on the team for getting nothing, but there were assets in play for Kipper just before he retired.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Sorry i realize it's a different type of situation. They got nothing from him by not moving him sooner. They allowed the asset to diminish to zero.
But i acknowledge that's a different thing than the core premise of what's being discussed.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

On a similar note, I wouldn't put Iginla on the list either - they made a mess of the trade, but they did try (poorly) to get assets for him.

Same with Regehr. Butler played almost 200 games in Calgary and Byron played 130. Not a great return talentwise, but certainly not nothing.

They only got 27 total games out of the 3 assets they got in return for Iginla.


It's a real shame Feaster was the guy in charge for the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades.

[Steve Bozek]

Just without taking some time to think about it, we could add Joe Mullen and Paul Byron to the list.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The other exacerbating factor is the number of quality players that the Flames have lost for nothing or next to nothing. To name a few:

Savard
St. Louis
Iginla
Gio
Bennett
Gaudreau

Will Valimaki be the latest member of that list? Time will tell.

Anton Strahlman is the best analog to me. I remember interviews where Strahlman was talking about walking the river pathway and how his kid was born in Calgary, then we traded him for a 3rd rounder in 2009 because Sutter as GM didn't see anything in him.

A few years later, he became one of the league's top defensemen, got to finals with the NYR & Tampa, and made the Lightning a powerful team for 5 years. 14 years later and Strahlman is still in the NHL with Boston.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Just without taking some time to think about it, we could add Joe Mullen and Paul Byron to the list.

No, they got him for his prime years from another team...that is an example the other way

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is this list worse than other teams, or is it standard? Or maybe it's much shorter than many teams?

I wouldn't put Iginla on the list either - they made a mess of the trade, but they did try (poorly) to get assets for him.

Savard and St Louis are the prime examples, and it's REALLY early to be putting Valimaki on a list with them.

Huh? I'm simply pointing out players that the Flames got an underwhelming return for (or no return at all) who went on to be quality players for other teams. You're trying to make it seem like I'm trying to equate Valimaki with Marty St Louis or something.

But to clarify, Bennett, Gio, Iggy, Regher do belong on that list, along with others that have been pointed out. Whatever the circumstances may have been, the Flames got an underwhelming or no return for guys who went on to play well for other teams. Some of these situations (most notably Gio) were not their fault, but it still is what it is. The team has to do better going forward when it comes to helping players unlock their true potential while wearing the flaming C. As for getting good value when trading proven vets, recent history would show that the team has gotten much better in that regard, so that's a good sign.

FTR Bennett has 70 points in 94 games since joining the Panthers. That's quality 2nd line C production (far better than he ever had as a Flame). Granted, he's off to a slow start this season, but it's still early.

[dino7c]

I think the point is in a cap era especially every team has these lists

What do the Canes have to show for PPG 2nd in Selke voting Lindholm?
Leafs and Kadri?

You could find 5 or 6 players with every team in the league with barely even thinking about it

I mean St. Louis is going back over 20 years now

[Street Pharmacist]

As great as it is for him to do well in Arizona, it's not like the Flames bought him out or something. For two years and a full training camp he hadn't shown he was part of the top 6 guys. Flames had to do something because sitting as the 7th wasn't going to help him so they risked the waiver because no one wanted him via trade.

I'm not sure what different love could've been made

[dino7c]

and even then 1 of 31 teams thought it was worth taking him for free...and they are actively trying to lose

Flames also picked up Zahorna on waivers who is PPG in the AHL, considering the cap hits and depth that is a trade the Flames make every day

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I don't know if it's worth discussing players like Regehr, Iginla, and Giordano as "being lost for nothing". Those players gave their prime years to Calgary, and pretty much had very little left to give after leaving here. Iginla had a bit more in his first couple years away from Calgary, but he's a goddam legend, so of course he did.

St. Louis was a mistake, as was Savard to some extent. Stralman was a surprise, but you can see that with many young players on teams that there's just no room for. Other teams acquire them and they flourish.

I was just thinking about this the other day seeing players like Gustav Forsling, Carter Verhaeghe, and Mason Marchment go from fringe or waiver players to absolute top talents in the league. It happens far more often than people realize, so we shouldn't wring our hands over it when it does happen, and we definitely shouldn't be crying about Valimaki just yet.

It's nice to see him stick in the lineup in Arizona, but the stakes are really low and they can afford to give him the ice time. We could not. There's not much more to say.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I think the point is in a cap era especially every team has these lists

What do the Canes have to show for PPG 2nd in Selke voting Lindholm?
Leafs and Kadri?

You could find 5 or 6 players with every team in the league with barely even thinking about it

I mean St. Louis is going back over 20 years now

You don't become a better organization by simply comparing yourself to bad or average organizations. You become better by looking at yourself and looking for ways to improve.

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

As great as it is for him to do well in Arizona, it's not like the Flames bought him out or something. For two years and a full training camp he hadn't shown he was part of the top 6 guys. Flames had to do something because sitting as the 7th wasn't going to help him so they risked the waiver because no one wanted him via trade.

I'm not sure what different love could've been made

One could make the case that the Flames as an orgainzation didn't do everything it could have to help Juuso unlock his potential during his time here.