Training Camp Day 11 Notes - Flames assign 9 players to AHL. 6 players on waivers.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Fans like to see creativity and offensive plays. Coaches like to see good, smart positional play - particularly from the bottom 6. So when I see fans say 'I haven't seen anything from this player', when the coach clearly does, I can only take the statement so seriously.

Rooney has good speed and has played smart, sound hockey. Frankly, I think he will look great with Backlund and Coleman (if that is where he lines up), and all the talk about his past possession numbers is meaningless because, with those guys, he will have great numbers.

Well he's signed for two seasons, so I'll guess we'll get a very long look and see who is right on this one.

[Major Major]

I think we need to look at this from the standpoint that they were auditioning 2 forward roles. 1 top 6 and 1 bottom 6. The great news out of this camp is that Dube won the top 6 role.

Eakin won the checking role. The backlund line will be a shutdown line and they identified Rooney for that role. The priority of the team is to shut down firepower and Rooney fits that bill.

Milano and Philips needed to beat out Dube, not Eakin. Pelletier could have fit that role, but Eakin beat him out, FOR NOW.

If Rooney is the guy Sutter wanted, there literally may not be a person on the planet to identify player qualities and fitting them into roles, so ya, I'll give him some benefit of the doubt over message board number readers.

[Flaming Horse]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

One thing watching these training camps is it really reinforces just how difficult it is to make the NHL. So much competition it’s crazy.

Also makes you realize how poor the scouting, drafting and developing has been during Trelivings tenure.

[Flaming Horse]

Tod button has also been the head amateur scout since 2002. I think its time for a change.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by VilleN

I haven’t been watching much, but hasn’t Valimaki been horrible?

He's been fine, but not outstanding.

He's turning 24 and is on the cusp.. With Kylington out, the flames have to strongly consider inserting him into the line-up to start the regular season. Even if it's just to showcase him prior to a trade. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing a couple games with Tanev.

[TheScorpion]

I would much rather see Mackey, who has outplayed Valimaki at every level over the last two seasons.

Mackey was Stockton's #1 last year. Valimaki was on the third pair and really struggled there. And Mackey has been worlds ahead in exhibition — it hasn't even been close.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Also makes you realize how poor the scouting, drafting and developing has been during Trelivings tenure.

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Tod button has also been the head amateur scout since 2002. I think its time for a change.

Everyone in the organization is terrible. Right after winning our division.

Seems appropriate....

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Also makes you realize how poor the scouting, drafting and developing has been during Trelivings tenure.

Aside from Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Fox, and, as far as I can see so far, Pelletier, Wolf, Zary.

[Textcritic]

[

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Also makes you realize how poor the scouting, drafting and developing has been during Trelivings tenure.

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Tod button has also been the head amateur scout since 2002. I think its time for a change.

Oh, Jesus. This again. The season hasn't even started yet.


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would much rather see Mackey, who has outplayed Valimaki at every level over the last two seasons.

Mackey was Stockton's #1 last year. Valimaki was on the third pair and really struggled there. And Mackey has been worlds ahead in exhibition — it hasn't even been close.

Sure, Mackey has maybe been somewhat better. That's why the flames won't showcase him.

After the flames play Valimaki to start the season they'll be able to call other teams and say: "yeah love the player, made the top-4 right out of camp, played on second pairing with Tanev. So much upside, such a smart player. Only 24 - can you believe it? Sutter loves him too - says he's very coachable. But now Kylington is back, so we have a bit of a log jam with Valimaki. Great player though..."

In this scenario I just made up in my head, at least one GM will be dumb enough to bite and give the flames a juicy return.

[TheScorpion]

I dunno if that'd work. I think teams pretty much have the book on Valimaki at this point. If the goal is to win games, Mackey is the much better bet IMO.

[GullFoss]

Trust me bro. I've run this scenario in my head twice now and it works everytime.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Plus you play the roster and line-up that gives you the best chance to win not to try and trick other GMs.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

What is it that Rooney does well? Genuine question. His counting stats and possession stats are some of the worst I have ever seen from a player who has stayed in the NHL for several season in a row.

His career high is 14 points.
His career high TOI is 13:51.
He has been a negative possession player every season (CF% last 4 seasons - 33.6-38.4-38.4-39.1) and he seems to be getting worse relative to his team (last year -17.3 CF%rel).
He has never been above water on faceoffs and has a career average of 46.3%.

This preseason:
28th in camp in CF% at 45% (-11.9 relative!)
Team has 1GF vs 2GA with him on the ice.
He has been on for more shots for than against to be fair (16v15), but more chances against than for.

I don't see the appeal, but I am curious what he is doing well out there that people like?


Yet, some people seem to really like his game. I haven't seen him do anything that Mitch McLain didn't do out there.

Some people like the GM and the 3x stanley cup winning coach like his game

holds a little more weight than some rando on CP

[Reggie Dunlop]

I'm sure there's teams interested in Connor Mackey. Only two years ago there was reportedly a bidding war that the Flames won. His stock really hasn't gone down in the interim.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flaming Horse

Also makes you realize how poor the scouting, drafting and developing has been during Trelivings tenure.

lol this post is terrible

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Aside from Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Fox, and, as far as I can see so far, Pelletier, Wolf, Zary.

And when you consider where those guys were drafted its even more impressive

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Sure, Mackey has maybe been somewhat better. That's why the flames won't showcase him.

After the flames play Valimaki to start the season they'll be able to call other teams and say: "yeah love the player, made the top-4 right out of camp, played on second pairing with Tanev. So much upside, such a smart player. Only 24 - can you believe it? Sutter loves him too - says he's very coachable. But now Kylington is back, so we have a bit of a log jam with Valimaki. Great player though..."

In this scenario I just made up in my head, at least one GM will be dumb enough to bite and give the flames a juicy return.

Ugh, if that scenario came true, Valimaki becomes an Oiler.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Aside from Andersson, Kylington, Dube, Mangiapane, Tkachuk, Fox, and, as far as I can see so far, Pelletier, Wolf, Zary.

I think a lot of people have unrealistic expectations of 1st round draft picks if they are outside of the top 15 or so. If you get an NHL caliber middle 6 forward or middle pairing defenseman in the mid to late 1st round, you can consider that a good pick most of the time. If you can get an NHL player at all outside of the 1st round, you are doing pretty good. In any given draft, probably only 20-30% of the players selected are of any real consequence. Far fewer of those would be star players. Of course, you need to hit the occasional home run as well, but most picks simply don't turn into anything.

Getting Andersson, Kylington, and Dube in the 2nd, Fox in the 4th, Mangiapane in the 6th, and Wolf in the 7th is pretty darn good. The jury is still out on Zary and Pelletier, but where they are at the moment isn't outside of where anyone should realistically expect.

[dammage79]

Poor scouting? Poor scouting? Yeah okay.

I'm pretty certain the Flames drafting and developing hit rate in tree tenure is at minimum, league average, but in my estimation, top 3rd. They've drafted and developed assets that have shaped the very core we see today. Poor. C'Mon, at least try with the hot takes. That's as flakey as a...filo pastry.

Drafted and developed and turned for assets that are key core pieces:
Tkachuk
Adam Fox
Sam Bennett (yep, he's been moved for pieces here today and not moved for nothing)
Micheal Ferland

Notable drafted:
Gaudreau
Monahan
Kylington
Razz
Dube
Backlund
Mangiapane

Here because of drafted and developed assets:
Hanifin
Lindholm
Toffoli
Weegar
Huberdeau


I'm sure I'm missing a bunch.

Poor drafting and scouting. Steeeerike!