Emergency Alert for Dangerous Persons

[CliffFletcher]

If it’s really true that most of the addicts on our streets and C-trains have histories of violence similar to Sanderson’s, then maybe the public are justified in avoiding public transit.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Again, you have no proof he committed 50 violent crimes. I only see a handful listed in the article. For all we know the rest are drug and robbery offences.

Surely this cannot be serious....

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Surely this cannot be serious....

I meant theft or similar petty crimes. I’m not downplaying his violent past, but to say he was convicted of 50+ violent offences is wrong. Chemgear quoted that half of them were parole violations which could be as simple as possessing alcohol or being out at night.

The guy is scum but stop making #### up to scapegoat the justice system.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I meant theft or similar petty crimes. I’m not downplaying his violent past, but to say he was convicted of 50+ violent offences is wrong. Chemgear quoted that half of them were parole violations which could be as simple as possessing alcohol or being out at night.

The guy is scum but stop making #### up to scapegoat the justice system.

This has to be an elaborate trolling exercise.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

I meant theft or similar petty crimes. I’m not downplaying his violent past, but to say he was convicted of 50+ violent offences is wrong. Chemgear quoted that half of them were parole violations which could be as simple as possessing alcohol or being out at night.

The guy is scum but stop making #### up to scapegoat the justice system.

I have not made anything up, and I understand that charges can stem from some pretty innocent transgressions. However your implication that robbery is a "crime of peace" is complete garbage.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I have not made anything up, and I understand that charges can stem from some pretty innocent transgressions. However your implication that robbery is a "crime of peace" is complete garbage.

Reread the first sentence I quoted. Robbery was the wrong word to use. I admit it.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I have not made anything up, and I understand that charges can stem from some pretty innocent transgressions. However your implication that robbery is a "crime of peace" is complete garbage.

Indeed. These are the details of his last robbery conviction from the parole documents. "threatened an accomplice, hitting him in the head with a firearm and stomping on his head. He then made the accomplice rob a fast food restaurant with a firearm, his parole records indicate."

Hard to believe this guy immediately broke his parole and then continued committing violent crime.

If he had 59 convictions for petty theft that'd be different, but there are enough robbery/assault/firearms charges in there that the pattern of behaviour is pretty strong.

Nobody is scapegoating the justice system here - it objectively failed. So then the question becomes why did it fail and how do we stop this from happening again.

Because personally I care more about the feelings of the families of those victims than I do about whether the parole board employees feel bad - and that position is pretty defensible, imo.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Slava

This has to be an elaborate trolling exercise.

Nope. I’m very serious. I’m also very tired because of a poor night of sleep.

[Fuzz]

Not to say he shouldn't be punished, but I do wonder how many systems must have failed him to end up like this? A criminal since 18(and probably long before), I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn society had a hand in how they turned out through our continued failures.

[Northendzone]

this story is just tragic on so many levels.

The lives of those involved changed forever. These two young men, whose lives have also ended, but did they ever have a chance as kids? Those on the parole board who felt the brothers could be productive members of their community.

As asked above, how do we prevent events like this from happening again.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Indeed. These are the details of his last robbery conviction from the parole documents. "threatened an accomplice, hitting him in the head with a firearm and stomping on his head. He then made the accomplice rob a fast food restaurant with a firearm, his parole records indicate."

Hard to believe this guy immediately broke his parole and then continued committing violent crime.

If he had 59 convictions for petty theft that'd be different, but there are enough robbery/assault/firearms charges in there that the pattern of behaviour is pretty strong.

Nobody is scapegoating the justice system here - it objectively failed. So then the question becomes why did it fail and how do we stop this from happening again.

Because personally I care more about the feelings of the families of those victims than I do about whether the parole board employees feel bad - and that position is pretty defensible, imo.

There are lots of guys with records far worse than him walking around. He’s not even an extreme example. These guys constantly get released on bail (parole is actually bit harder). It’s not unusual to get guys bail 3 or 4 times on the original charges before they’re finally denied. - me - criminal defence lawyer.

The supreme court recently struck down stacking parole eligibility over 25 years for multiple murders on a life sentence.

Conditional sentence orders (house arrest instead of real jail) being banned by the Harper government are also being overturned left right and centre across the country lately.

Government can legislate whatever they want, but how it’s interpreted and ultimately upheld by courts is the key. There are some “harsh” judges out there, but there’s lots of soft ones out there too where they let almost everyone out on bail or give light sentences. You better believe defence lawyers try their best to get clients in front of those people.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Your position doesn’t make any sense because if your goal isn’t rehabilitation you should be arguing for the death penalty instead of just holding them until they die in prison. How pointless is that?

This seems like an absurd statement to a reasonable position. It doesn't make any sense to you why someone doesn't think we should kill people?

The Canadian justice system has struggled with this since Ng was found in Calgary but under United States vs Burns, the Canadian courts found that a suspect charged with crimes that could lead to the death penalty should not be extradited. Many other countries have similar approaches where they won't extradite if the death penalty is on the table. Life in prison though? That's fine, extradite away.

Also just cost and resources alone could be reason enough not to have the death penalty even if you're okay with life imprisonment.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Yamer

A lifelong imprisonment is far worse than nothing, which is death.

You're right. You're not the only person that believes this. All we ask is that you accept that you're wrong.

Funny how often criminals will fight tooth and nail, years and years of appeal after appeal after appeal to stay alive despite being on death row, or simply take plea deals to avoid the death penalty.

"You're wrong if you think death is bad" lol.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Indeed. These are the details of his last robbery conviction from the parole documents. "threatened an accomplice, hitting him in the head with a firearm and stomping on his head. He then made the accomplice rob a fast food restaurant with a firearm, his parole records indicate."

Hard to believe this guy immediately broke his parole and then continued committing violent crime.

If he had 59 convictions for petty theft that'd be different, but there are enough robbery/assault/firearms charges in there that the pattern of behaviour is pretty strong.

Nobody is scapegoating the justice system here - it objectively failed. So then the question becomes why did it fail and how do we stop this from happening again.

Because personally I care more about the feelings of the families of those victims than I do about whether the parole board employees feel bad - and that position is pretty defensible, imo.

It did fail. The question is could it be predicted that it would fail this spectacularly? He was a risk to reoffend. What more could have been done to mitigate that risk? Keeping him locked up for life would do it but I’d prefer that only as a last resort. He made some small progress towards rehabilitation. He should have been given the proper resources to continue that.

We don’t know what brought on this killing spree. Was it a natural progression of his violent history? Maybe but I’ll wait for the facts to see for sure.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Not to say he shouldn't be punished, but I do wonder how many systems must have failed him to end up like this? A criminal since 18(and probably long before), I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn society had a hand in how they turned out through our continued failures.

IMO this isn't about punishment. At all actually. From the coverage so far it sounds like he had a ####ty life - no decent family, racism, drug/alcohol issues, etc. I'm not saying you need to punish this person, but you do need to protect the rest of society from him being out in public committing violent crimes.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

this story is just tragic on so many levels.

The lives of those involved changed forever. These two young men, whose lives have also ended, but did they ever have a chance as kids? Those on the parole board who felt the brothers could be productive members of their community.

As asked above, how do we prevent events like this from happening again.

It’ll take huge systemic changes to get to a point where First Nations children grow up with support from good, loving parents in an environment of caring, respect and security. Or lots of prisons. I choose the former, if it’s at all possible.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Funny how often criminals will fight tooth and nail, years and years of appeal after appeal after appeal to stay alive despite being on death row, or simply take plea deals to avoid the death penalty.

"You're wrong if you think death is bad" lol.

Is there anywhere in the world that, in the process of imposing punishment for a crime, ranks life imprisonment as a more severe punishment than death? Either now or historically? My assumption would be no, but I'm happy to read about it.

Staying in jail for life or being executed seems like something that would vary wildly between offenders, it's certainly subjective enough that it's pretty lame for Yamer from his high horse to dismiss either side as "wrong".

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

This seems like an absurd statement to a reasonable position. It doesn't make any sense to you why someone doesn't think we should kill people?

The Canadian justice system has struggled with this since Ng was found in Calgary but under United States vs Burns, the Canadian courts found that a suspect charged with crimes that could lead to the death penalty should not be extradited. Many other countries have similar approaches where they won't extradite if the death penalty is on the table. Life in prison though? That's fine, extradite away.

Also just cost and resources alone could be reason enough not to have the death penalty even if you're okay with life imprisonment.

How is it absurd? You completely ignored the philosophical slant of the question.

It doesn’t make any sense to me why the specific conditions of what Acey thinks “life in prison” should be (no chance at parole, no rehabilitation efforts, etc) and ensuring someone dies in prison the same way they went in is morally any more comfortable than the death penalty.

Try to be less of a pedant and think a bit more broadly about the question. Or don’t, I don’t entirely care. It’s off topic anyway.

[Derek Sutton]

Getting back to the manhunt, we all understand that RCMP have to be tight lipped and that of course this is a very fluid situation. But them saying they have witnesses or can confirm the two men were in Regina Sunday morning, then discovering the body on the reserve, it is pretty clear that the one never made it to Regina. They have not clarified any of this to the media.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by chedder

This doesn't sound at all like your average downtown Vancouver junky. From the cbc article:

"The documents say Sanderson threatened to murder a band store employee and then burn down his parents' home.

In 2018, Sanderson stabbed two men with a fork and beat another man until he lost consciousness in a ditch.#In June of that year he repeatedly kicked a police officer in the face while being taken into custody."

Sounds like an extremely violent offender that also threatened women and children.

I'm failing to see why some on here are minimizing his past offenses.

sorry but this is an absolutely typical record of a DTES street level junkie, he wasnt even considered a violent offender within the system because this behaviour is so typical of most that end up in the criminal justice system, as I have said this record doesnt come close to the history of 5 or more kids I have cared for in their teens

The thing that separates a 'violent offender' from a regular one is not just stabbing his friends with a fork but stabbing them 50 or a hundred times, blinding one of them and sending the other one to hospital for three months in a coma, again threatening his wife or some store clerk but not beating them to within an inch of their lives is an indication he isnt a particularly out of control violent offender, if you are on a parole board that would be seen as a sign of some self control.

His criminal history is absolutely ordinary, no different to most of the ones a federal parole board would deal with day in and day out and that is the problem here, do you look up thousands of offenders for life at a cost of billions a year?