2022 Freedumb Convoy(s) Thread

[Locke]

We should resurrect that thread from way, way, waaaaaay back in the day, what was it? Something about Zeitgeist?

Mikey and Tower were really laying it on thick?

Lets get that ball rolling again, at the very least we can attempt to contain the fringe?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

Okay, the one point that I expected to be the easiest to prove. Where does matter come from if it cannot be created nor destroy? When does time begin?



Critical enough for you?



How about the mathematical improbability of so many coincidences?



Saying a higher being/existence does not exist because you do not have the capability to see beyond what you have been taught is far less critical in my mind.

Not really.

Matter came from the big bang. Yes, this explosion is still a mystery. Don't think it was any sort of God that did it or else where did he/she/it come from?

Time, as we know it started at the same time. Time is just a measuring device.

Mathematical probability of coincidences? Now you're talking nonsense. You mentioned 3 things in your life and that proves it to you?

You think 'god' saved your friend, helped another but he just sits by and lets millions starve to death, get murdered, permit terrible atrocities like what are happening in Ukraine?

It's not a matter of seeing beyond what I was taught. In fact it's the opposite. It's seeing beyond the lies.

Anyway, this is last I'll respond as I remember your absurdity from the covid thread.

[photon]

I prayed for God to save the 7 children that have starved to death each minute people argue about the existence of God.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by chedder

Not really.

Matter came from the big bang. Yes, this explosion is still a mystery. Don't think it was any sort of God that did it or else where did he/she/it come from?

Time, as we know it started at the same time. Time is just a measuring device.

Mathematical probability of coincidences? Now you're talking nonsense. You mentioned 3 things in your life and that proves it to you?

You think 'god' saved your friend, helped another but he just sits by and lets millions starve to death, get murdered, permit terrible atrocities like what are happening in Ukraine?

It's not a matter of seeing beyond what I was taught. In fact it's the opposite. It's seeing beyond the lies.

Anyway, this is last I'll respond as I remember your absurdity from the covid thread.

So matter can be created? My simple understanding is that all matter was contained in the “core” of the Big Bang, which means ir existed at that time, but where did it come from before that?

Time as a concept just started! Right?

It is okay to brush these inconveniences aside when it is your argument, but not others.

Actually if you read my post I listed 3 examples but said 2 happened multiple times. Again, if you choose not to see you will not. I believe that you try from a logical standpoint, but religion is not logically /physically based. It is clearly something that Man does not have physical understanding of. But it is not physical.

I will side with Einstein on this one. He deeply believed in God. You go ahead and believe that you/mankind understand everything.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

I will side with Einstein on this one. He deeply believed in God.

Einstein believed in Spinoza's version of God.

[Wormius]

Einstein is not an authority on god or religions.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by photon

I prayed for God to save the 7 children that have starved to death each minute people argue about the existence of God.

False equivalence. If I actually believed you did pray, which I don’t, then you would know that everyone cannot have everything all the time.

Do I believe there is good and evil in the world? Yes! Do I believe that bad things happen? Yes! Do I believe that bad things happen to good people? Yes!

There is a balance to the universe and for all the good there is bad/ evil. I choose to believe in the good and try to affect the things I can. I think that the movie, Bruce Almighty covers this well. There are so many people praying for so many things. A lot of them tend to be selfish (things that help me!). I have found that when I am not selfish and am being specific, then there tends to be more positive outcomes.

Again, I expected to be attacked and belittled.

As previously stated I spent the majority of my life feeling the same way as you. Once I opened my mind to other possibilities it changed my life. Until you go through it you can’t or won’t understand it.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Einstein believed in Spinoza's version of God.

Originally Posted by Wormius

Einstein is not an authority on god or religions.

He believed in a greater being and that the intricacy of the universe was tied to this being.

Did not say he was an authority, but a very scientific mind that also believed in God. Whether or not it was Spinoza’s version or not.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

False equivalence.

False equivalence is an informal fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning.

Originally Posted by Just a guy

I will side with Einstein on this one. He deeply believed in God. You go ahead and believe that you/mankind understand everything.

alrighty.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

alrighty.

Explain the false equivalency? Did Einstein believe in God? Yes! Was he a scientific mind? Yes

My position is that both exist. Einstein did as well.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

He believed in a greater being and that the intricacy of the universe was tied to this being.

Did not say he was an authority, but a very scientific mind that also believed in God. Whether or not it was Spinoza’s version or not.

Spinoza's version of God isn't a version of God that would be recognizable to any Abrahamic religion. I'm an agnostic atheist and I'm partial to Spinoza's version of God. It's basically just the universe.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Spinoza's version of God isn't a version of God that would be recognizable to any Abrahamic religion. I'm an agnostic atheist and I'm partial to Spinoza's version of God. It's basically just the universe.

My limited understanding is that Spinoza believed that God was a nebulous entity, basically as you said, the universe itself. That the universe was the creator of the universe.

At the bottom of it all whether Abrahamic or not, the belief is in a creator and that creator is responsible for the order of the universe.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

My limited understanding is that Spinoza believed that God was a nebulous entity, basically as you said, the universe itself. That the universe was the creator of the universe.

At the bottom of it all whether Abrahamic or not, the belief is in a creator and that creator is responsible for the order of the universe.

Describing God as either an entity or a creator is not Spinoza's God. Spinoza's God is more just like Nature. It's kind of like Spinoza's God is just things like natural laws, math, and actual stuff like you, me, trees, cars etc. He pretty explicitly does not believe in God as any entity as far as I recall.

Einstein believing in Spinoza's God is not at all like believing in a version of God that people go to church to worship. It's just like believing in nature and the laws of nature.

[Just a guy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Describing God as either an entity or a creator is not Spinoza's God. Spinoza's God is more just like Nature. It's kind of like Spinoza's God is just things like natural laws, math, and actual stuff like you, me, trees, cars etc. He pretty explicitly does not believe in God as any entity as far as I recall.

Einstein believing in Spinoza's God is not at all like believing in a version of God that people go to church to worship. It's just like believing in nature and the laws of nature.

Reading a little more on Einstein, he moved around a little, but was clear that he did not believe in the Abrahamic version of God.

He believed there wasn’t a “personal God”, but that there were many things that we do not have the ability to understand. He did believe in a higher being.

I have always been struck by his quote “God does not play dice with the universe “.

Although he and I share different views, which is fine, we both believe in something else, while still believing in science.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Wouldn’t the ultimate understanding of god relate to the unknowable? Almost as in the way to understand god would be to drop the illusion of a god concept. A quote to relate to this “ As we say in the East, 'When the sage points to the moon, all the idiot sees is the finger”. All the disciples in the bible didn’t understand or know god, yet religion tries to. The bible never gave the readers a picture of image of god, did it? Thomas Aquinas says, “about God only this can be said with certainty that we do not know what He is”.

Therefore, I have no time to make room to understand an unknowable and unquantifiable concept.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Don't be so sensitive. It wasn't a personal attack.

I think it's safe to say that those with a religious base are significantly more represented in the ant-vaxx, not quick to vax or COVID skeptical movement.

Is that really the case in Canada? Do you have a source for that?

I can find data correlating income, age, education, and political orientation with vaccine hesitancy.

https://www.dovepress.com/predictors...xt-article-PPA

In this poll of vaccine hesitancy in Alberta, only 9 per cent of the unvaccinated cited religious belief as the reason.

https://theconversation.com/financia...bertans-170162

[Captain Otto]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Is that really the case in Canada? Do you have a source for that?



I can find data correlating income, age, education, and political orientation with vaccine hesitancy. Nothing on religion.



https://www.dovepress.com/predictors...xt-article-PPA



In this poll of vaccine hesitancy in Alberta, only 9 per cent of the unvaccinated cited religious belief as the reason.



https://theconversation.com/financia...bertans-170162

Ya, to be fair, I have no source.

I wasn't saying it was solely a religious reason for being unvaxxed, moreso that religion lends itself towards skepticism when it comes to science.

I mean it's not like it was a science club violating health orders on a regular basis.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Just a guy

Reading a little more on Einstein, he moved around a little, but was clear that he did not believe in the Abrahamic version of God.

He believed there wasn’t a “personal God”, but that there were many things that we do not have the ability to understand. He did believe in a higher being.

I have always been struck by his quote “God does not play dice with the universe “.

Although he and I share different views, which is fine, we both believe in something else, while still believing in science.

I think you have kind of misinterpreted Einstein's beliefs.

His statement about God not playing dice was a statement about his belief in the natural laws of the universe, and that the universe is deterministic according to natural laws. It was a response to the seeming randomness of quantum science, and reflected his insistence that the underlying reality of the universe was not random but operated according to natural laws.
Link

His belief in Spinoza's God was a denial of a God as a spiritual being that existed outside of natural law and reflected his belief in nature and natural law. He wrote on that:

a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolization. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them

Link

In a poem he wrote in dedication to Spinoza he wrote the line "Trust not the comforting facade" about religious belief.
Link

In the same letter as quoted above, he also wrote:

The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can change this for me.

I'm not writing this to attack your whole belief system or anything, but I think you should really reconsider using Einstein as an example of a scientist who believed in a spiritual being or creator version of God. He was an agnostic who believed in a natural reality that unfolds according to natural law

[Brendone]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

It's kind of like Spinoza's God is just things like natural laws, math, and actual stuff like you, me, trees, cars etc.

So God is the Force? I knew that Medi-Chlorian thing was bull crap!

[DownInFlames]

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