Tank for Bedard

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

"Tank for Bedard" = take a crapshoot on a crapshot.

No guarantee of winning the crapshoot, and it's a crapshot to see if the player pans out.

Yah...solid plan, that.

When you don't have an elite core, every option is a crapshoot. The most important thing is to get those elite, foundational pieces.


Top-5 picks aren't sure things, but floating around 18th in the league and drafting a #4 defenseman or a second-line winger isn't gonna make this team a contender.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

You don't have to convince me. I'm not against it. Just saying I don't think ownership is into a full on tanking. Would love to be wrong.

I think the fans well have to stop buying tickets and jerseys to get the ownership to move off the current never rebuild mandate

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Bedard is not a crapshoot. He is a real deal. Not James Neal type

...like Sam Bennett?

[Mathgod]

Become charred, marred, & scarred for Bedard.

The best one is probably "Drop your guard for Bedard"

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

...like Sam Bennett?

nobody spoke of Bennett as a guarantee.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

2023 draft is where we want to target leverage. Two top 15 picks with ours being early would be nice.

Bedard is nice but I want a large center who can drive a line when the checking gets tighter and wants to win here.

Plus we won’t be picking at the top less the lottery gods deign it so because we know the hockey gods hate the flames. At least the ones running this ##### show of a league do.

[DoubleK]

I have little to no confidence that this franchise has the wherewithal to tank properly. A more likely outcome would be finishing 10th in the conference and missing out on the playoffs by a handful of points.

[kaddy]

2023 Draft is where we want picks.

Lindholm is just as valuable to me, he's 27 and has 2 more years on his contract. #1 C that makes 4.8M on the cap.

Time to gut the team is now after this season.

[#-3]

Tanking is dumb, you people sound like Edmonton, think about that.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by #-3

Tanking is dumb, you people sound like Edmonton, think about that.

This isn't "tanking", truly. They got forced into this. Two top tier players have bailed on them.

"you people sound like Edmonton"

you mean that team that got better this summer after they already knocked us out in a 5 game series while we...lost our two best players.

Sure, whatever.

The ego/pride on fans looking down their noses at other teams/fan bases is so wild. Calgary has won 5 playoff series since 1989. Where does this ego/pride come from?

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't think it is necessarily easier to break out of being a 17th place team in the league than it is out of being a 30th place team. In fact, I would bet on a bottom lottery team being able to get out of it more effectively because they are almost certainly getting the better free assets.

So yeah, pulling out of being a bottom feeder isn't easy. You still need to have a properly managed team to guide the process and make good decisions. And it certainly takes time. But moving from a being a mediocre team with no high picks to being a great team is probably even a bigger hurdle to get over IMO.

I guess it depends on where you see the Flames after this off season. If it is still a great team, then definitely don't rebuild. If you think it is a mediocre team, then you have to figure out what is a better strategy to becoming great.

[CliffFletcher]

I just don’t see the Flames embarking on a rebuild of the sort being bandied around here. Not next season, anyway. What I could see, though, is being sellers if they’re out of a playoff spot at the deadline. Guys like Backlund, Toffoli, and Coleman auctioned off. Maybe Tanev. And then retooling with the cap space opened up with Monahan and Lucic coming off the books.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Calgary doesn't have to be like Edmonton - and they likely won't be.


Edmonton is beyond embarrassing because they were one of the least successful teams for over a decade until they lucked into McDavid.


Calgary is a strong drafting and development team. I actually had a long post all written up and was going to post it, but I lost it. I went through a bunch of drafts...


I will cut to the chase:


Yes, I would hope for Bedard or as close to Bedard as possible in the draft. However, Calgary is GOOD at drafting. Heck, they have been finding elite-level talent outside the first two rounds - they drafted Gaudreau, Fox (sure, couldn't sign him, but that's amazing drafting) and had Kucherov on their 'other' list and gambled too much. They also made some picks like Mangiapane.


They won't hit on all their picks, but in a lot of drafts, you can find elite-level talent in the bottom of the 1st round or into the other rounds. Who would bet that the third or fourth (or whatever - don't want to get into a re-ranking argument) in the "McDavid draft" would have been drafted in the 5th round (Kaprizov).


This is a good draft. If the Flames go in with 3 first round picks - even having zero in the top 5 - they could hit on some high-end talents. Even Ritchie - he is everywhere from in the top 3 at one point last year, to just inside the top 10.



Imagine we are all disappointed hitting just outside the top 4.. and drafting a generational player like Makar. Sure, there may not be a Makar in this draft, but there is some incredible talent here.


The argument against rebuilding is usually: "You can't out-tank Arizona, Montreal, Seattle, etc.". Sure, probably not... but I bet Montreal fans were saying the same thing as their season got underway. You don't know what will happen in a season. Plus, there is the lottery. Plus, as mentioned above, there are a lot of great talented kids.


Robert Thomas is a player that St. Louis won't give up in a package for Tkachuk apparently - 20th overall in 2017. Robertson in Dallas is a high-end pick that likely Dallas won't include in their package - Round 2 #39 overall.



Of course there is no guarantee that Calgary hits on players like this. It is a gamble whichever way you choose. Calgary's best players are gone. Most of the UFAs have already found a home. What's next? Try to spin your wheels for a few seasons like we saw in 2009/10 - 2013? Sure, I will still support the Flames. I think it is the wrong direction, but sure, it CAN work. Flames need to get lucky. Going to be tough as players suddenly don't want to be here, but still manageable. Maybe Sutter can squeeze even more blood out of this stone that has lost their top 2 scorers (and whatever roster player you get back in return is likely to be worse than Tkachuk).


Once the season starts, I won't complain. I wanted to rebuild last off-season, and Treliving started signing guys that made sense to me and the Flames built an identity again and I was on-board right at the get-go a month or two before the season started waving my pom poms. I will be shocked if the Flames are anywhere as close next season - but I will keep an open mind and see what happens.


I just think that this retool - or a rebuild - is the best move to push this team forward out of mediocrity.

[Hackey]

Finding a player like Thomas or Robertson later in the draft is the type of find that should put your team over the top. Those should not be the picks you rely on to lead your team. All elite teams have some high end talent found in the top 5 or 10 and same steals later on. If the Flames rely on only finding steals in later rounds they will never amount to anything more than average.

[PuckDemon]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Finding a player like Thomas or Robertson later in the draft is the type of find that should put your team over the top. Those should not be the picks you rely on to lead your team. All elite teams have some high end talent found in the top 5 or 10 and same steals later on. If the Flames rely on only finding steals in later rounds they will never amount to anything more than average.

Yup, and because we are not a prime destination, we need to rely on high draft picks even more to have any chance to be elite. We need a whole pile of draft wins because some of those wins will choose another city.

In true Flames fashion, our highest pick ever, Bennett, didn't live up to the hype. If we got Draisaitl instead and Adam Fox had signed with us, this would be a completely different team. Need to make up for our terrible luck with more high picks.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Finding a player like Thomas or Robertson later in the draft is the type of find that should put your team over the top. Those should not be the picks you rely on to lead your team. All elite teams have some high end talent found in the top 5 or 10 and same steals later on. If the Flames rely on only finding steals in later rounds they will never amount to anything more than average.

Exactly, you need the Rantanens but you need to draft high to get the Mackinnons and Makars.

Just do it and do it properly. Take time and build something from the ground up, not just slap another coat of paint on it.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by PuckDemon

Yup, and because we are not a prime destination, we need to rely on high draft picks even more to have any chance to be elite. We need a whole pile of draft wins because some of those wins will choose another city.

In true Flames fashion, our highest pick ever, Bennett, didn't live up to the hype. If we got Draisaitl instead and Adam Fox had signed with us, this would be a completely different team. Need to make up for our terrible luck with more high picks.

If we landed Draisaitl, had a healthy Monahan, and Fox signed, that would have been the fortune they needed to have a shot at a Cup.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by #-3

Tanking is dumb, you people sound like Edmonton, think about that.

Edmonton's mere existence as a franchise has us unable to even reasonably contemplate a rebuild. We're petrified of it because of their ineptitude, all the way from the grassroots fanbase up to the owner's box.

I for one would like to see good management + a rebuild. The two don't need to be mutually exclusive as they were in Edmonton's case.

[Roof-Daddy]

The oilers are garbage but they got one thing right, they built a shiny new arena.

They also got one thing lucky, they won the McDavid lottery because of their own ineptitude causing a rule change.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The oilers are garbage but they got one thing right, they built a shiny new arena.

They also got one thing lucky, they won the McDavid lottery because of their own ineptitude causing a rule change.

Katz ripped the city big time to build it though. Though what else does that city have to make it happy.