Former Japanese PM Shinzo Abe shot; unresponsive in hospital

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

It's not a time where you can just do immediately to turn yourself into some kind of powerful military from having basically no uber military at this point in time. We are well past the time where you can just roll up with a zillion guys and have a good army.

They are also a rapidly aging population and shrinking population as it is. If they just throw a bunch of people into an army and lost a bunch of them - their problems gets worse.

And yes - they should admit to what they did, but in the grand scheme of things - it doesn't matter that much. As we've seen in the US - it doesn't take a heck of a lot for people to decide that something they've always valued (fair democratic elections) to something they don't care about.

I admire Japanese culture so I hate that it seems like I'm piling on, but whatever a zillion man army can do, a few thousand well trained soldiers with the best tech can do even better. And if Japan is known for anything, its advanced tech.

Anyway this thread is about Shinzo Abe.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Really? I would say that what people believe to be true about history is really important in the grand scheme of things. The divisions in the US between people who believe Biden won the election vs those who believe Trump won is a prime example. People having different beliefs about what took place has the potential to result in outcomes as different as those between a peaceful transfer of power or the overthrow of a government.

Isn't that a prime example of what I'm talking about.

All those people believed in elections and democracy up until they didn't anymore. They flipped whatever beliefs they had when their guy told them so.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Isn't that a prime example of what I'm talking about.

All those people believed in elections and democracy up until they didn't anymore. They flipped whatever beliefs they had when their guy told them so.

I think a lot of them believed that their guy told them the truth and they were marching on the capital to save democracy. Polls still show a lot of people down there believe the election actually really was stolen with fake ballots etc.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by SebC

Not denying that Japan was awful. So was Germany. A lot has changed since 1945.

But Germany admit to it and apologized, but Japan denied it repeatedly. Nothing has change since 1945, if you have any relative who was brutally killed or treated by the Japanese imperial army back then you would understand. Do I want serious harm to Japan's general population? No I don't. All I want from them is admit to the crimes their country has committed and apologize for it. As per your preference of Japan over China or Russia, be careful what you wish for because you might get it.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

As per your preference of Japan over China or Russia, be careful what you wish for because you might get it.

This is complete BS. Japan isn't capable of being a hegemon and therefore we shouldn't fear them. The west needs to go all in on keeping China out of Taiwan long enough for their demographics to implode through 2030-2040. If an armed Japan helps provides that counterbalance literally the whole world outside of China and Russia will be infinitely better in the 21st Century.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

This is complete BS. Japan isn't capable of being a hegemon and therefore we shouldn't fear them. The west needs to go all in on keeping China out of Taiwan long enough for their demographics to implode through 2030-2040. If an armed Japan helps provides that counterbalance literally the whole world outside of China and Russia will be infinitely better in the 21st Century.

Who is "we"?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I think a lot of them believed that their guy told them the truth and they were marching on the capital to save democracy. Polls still show a lot of people down there believe the election actually really was stolen with fake ballots etc.

Yes exactly. And if some charismatic leader takes over in Germany, a good chunk of them will flip their beliefs regardless of whatever they said about it in the past. Disavowing something isn't a force field thag prevents it from happening.

Abe actually wanted the country to build out it's military capabilities but couldn't get support to change the constitution.

[lambeburger]

Only on CP, a world leader gets assassinated and the consensus is: "oh well his politics weren't great and neither is his country"

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

Only on CP, a world leader gets assassinated and the consensus is: "oh well his politics weren't great and neither is his country"

Former world leader*

And it’s not a disparaging statement to say Japan did evil #### from about 1900-1945.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Yes exactly. And if some charismatic leader takes over in Germany, a good chunk of them will flip their beliefs regardless of whatever they said about it in the past. Disavowing something isn't a force field thag prevents it from happening.

Abe actually wanted the country to build out it's military capabilities but couldn't get support to change the constitution.

Sure, maybe it's hypothetically possible, but the shared beliefs about history would make it dramatically more difficult to achieve. That matters.

[activeStick]

A good summary piece on Abe by The New Yorker. Touches on many of the things mentioned in this thread, from changing the constitution, to the Rape of Nanking, comfort women and Nippon Kaigi.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and...panese-history

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

Only on CP, a world leader gets assassinated and the consensus is: "oh well his politics weren't great and neither is his country"

I assure you that this sentiment is not unique to CP.

[JohnnyB]

Well, Abe's party, the LDP, won the election. With their coalition they will have a supermajority that should be sufficient to rewrite the constitution.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...n-2022-7%3famp

[activeStick]

Perfect. Them being able to rewrite their constitution according to their proposed changes posted earlier is exactly what this world needs.

Edit - saw that voter turnout was fourth lowest on record at just over 52%.

[Hack&Lube]

For whatever motive this guy had, he has turned Abe into a hero/martyr and has probably guaranteed that the LDP wins even more support and even more ability to rewrite the constitution now.

The motive I have heard, is not so much political but rather the assassin believed Abe responsible for his mother's bankruptcy due to his association with a religious cult she donated money too. The police are not saying which one but it sounds like an offshoot of the Unification Church run by the Korean reverend Sun Myung Moon.

[Number 39]

Hard to say if they will actually do it though. Japanese policy around things like this generally move very slowly over time. Also not a huge shock that the LDP won....I mean I think they've basically only been out of power for maybe 3-4 years since 1955 - going by memory.