Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A lot of voters cast their ballot strictly on the basis of personal financial impacts, including taxes. 90 per cent of the stuff we post about in this thread is irrelevant to them.

In almost all respects the everyday Albertan is worse off in the personal finances because of UCP decisions. But that won't matter either. It's decades of dogmatic propaganda that Socialism = bad. No critical thinking required.

I won't go so far as to start calling people stupid, I don't think that's true at all - but I swear the majority of Conservative voters in this province who make less than $150,000 a year are just willfully ignorant of how each party's policies affect them.

[Delgar]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Not voting for a party because they have NDP in their name is peak stupidity

The NDP is different from other federal/provincial parties with the same name, in that the NDP has usually tried to keep the feds/provs "together". That's changed somewhat the last few years in particular and especially in respect of the Alberta experience, where some of the policies are very different when comparing federal to provincial.

Still, I'll admit it, the chances of me voting NDP is slim to none, and its because of them. They would probably be better than the UCP next time around, but I'll be looking for alternatives more in line with my own values. The NDP really skated through their last madate despite making many mistakes (I can't believe the PPA fiasco seems to have gone by them without much outrage). So many mistakes, largely due to many crappy candidates. I do expect they'll be better the second time around and it looks like they may form the next government. The UCP leadership contest is going to be the biggest wildcard going forward.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Delgar

The NDP is different from other federal/provincial parties with the same name, in that the NDP has usually tried to keep the feds/provs "together". That's changed somewhat the last few years in particular and especially in respect of the Alberta experience, where some of the policies are very different when comparing federal to provincial.

Still, I'll admit it, the chances of me voting NDP is slim to none, and its because of them. They would probably be better than the UCP next time around, but I'll be looking for alternatives more in line with my own values. The NDP really skated through their last madate despite making many mistakes (I can't believe the PPA fiasco seems to have gone by them without much outrage). So many mistakes, largely due to many crappy candidates. I do expect they'll be better the second time around and it looks like they may form the next government. The UCP leadership contest is going to be the biggest wildcard going forward.

Why even type all that. If you can still give the UCRAP party a chance, you are just a Con for life.

[DFO]

The PPA fiasco was a big blunder. Full stop. But the UCP have lapped that amount of uselessness, both in dollars and policy, several times over.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by belsarius

In almost all respects the everyday Albertan is worse off in the personal finances because of UCP decisions. But that won't matter either. It's decades of dogmatic propaganda that Socialism = bad. No critical thinking required.

Not just Alberta, but a large percentage of the population simply equates better finances with lower taxes (and in Alberta's case, higher priced oil). They don't think about the higher insurance fees, higher utility rates, and more user fees for things like Parks and other services. Why? Because it doesn't directly come from the government. But UCP policies have made life more expensive, even when they're swimming in cash and have also not made life easier for those in need (e.g. AISH, safe consumption sites) with said cash and don't plan on doing so (as far as I can tell).

Higher oil prices also hasn't equated to replaceable jobs. In fact, it seems the majority of jobs coming through places like Calgary are from other industries, including Fintech and SaaS. Energy companies are relying more on tech anyways to replace jobs. I am sure there is increased work in the sands though, despite all the grumbling and mumbling about federal policies.

Not to mention a lot of these people are going to be taking advantage of "socialist" policies such as child care and dental care. Many of them already took CERB too, cap in hand, while demonizing these social programs.

But people's brains start and stop at "taxes". And if it looks expensive or sounds expensive (especially if their parents and grandparents created a proverbial boogeyman around it), then they're going to stick to the "no taxes" party even if it's a self-inflicted wound.

[Delgar]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Why even type all that. If you can still give the UCRAP party a chance, you are just a Con for life.

You lack reading comprehension skills. No where did I say I'd give UCP a chance. But hey, make up what you want to think you read, not what you actually read.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There are a lot easier ways to make money than being a politician. The draw is influence and status.

There are few easier and legal ways to enrich all of your friends at once.

[Amethyst]

Sure, the PPA was a fiasco. But the UCP has had dozens of fiascos and never once have they admitted they were wrong. They just double down on things.

Look at how they keep pushing the provincial police force, even though the majority of Albertans don't want it. They would rather make a show of "sticking it to Ottawa" than doing what is best for Albertans.

The NDP may not always do things I agree with, but I think they are doing what they consider best for the province. The UCP is doing what is best for them and they don't give a s%$& about the rest of us.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by Delgar

The NDP is different from other federal/provincial parties with the same name, in that the NDP has usually tried to keep the feds/provs "together". That's changed somewhat the last few years in particular and especially in respect of the Alberta experience, where some of the policies are very different when comparing federal to provincial.

Still, I'll admit it, the chances of me voting NDP is slim to none, and its because of them. They would probably be better than the UCP next time around, but I'll be looking for alternatives more in line with my own values. The NDP really skated through their last mandate despite making many mistakes (I can't believe the PPA fiasco seems to have gone by them without much outrage). So many mistakes, largely due to many crappy candidates. I do expect they'll be better the second time around and it looks like they may form the next government. The UCP leadership contest is going to be the biggest wildcard going forward.

The Conservatives (PC/UCP) have made decision after decision that is against the best interests of Alberta and Albertans. They have wasted BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS giving money to their corporate overlords. They have de-funded our most vulnerable people. They have gutted education. They have been attempting to cripple our health care system so they can bring in an US-style private system.


Heck, even the PPAs can be blamed on them for including a clause that allows the companies to cancel them for convenience.



If, after all that has happened under the UCP, you feel you can't vote for the NDP because they had to pay out some contracts that were negotiated by the previous Conservative government, then I don't think you are being honest with yourself. You are either willfully, deliberately ignorant or are willing to put up with a corrupt, incompetent government because you want your government to oppress women, PoC, LGBTQ+ and other minorities.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Delgar

The NDP is different from other federal/provincial parties with the same name, in that the NDP has usually tried to keep the feds/provs "together". That's changed somewhat the last few years in particular and especially in respect of the Alberta experience, where some of the policies are very different when comparing federal to provincial.

Still, I'll admit it, the chances of me voting NDP is slim to none, and its because of them. They would probably be better than the UCP next time around, but I'll be looking for alternatives more in line with my own values. The NDP really skated through their last madate despite making many mistakes (I can't believe the PPA fiasco seems to have gone by them without much outrage). So many mistakes, largely due to many crappy candidates. I do expect they'll be better the second time around and it looks like they may form the next government. The UCP leadership contest is going to be the biggest wildcard going forward.

You keep saying that, but all you ever bring up is the PPAs.
Please expand on the "so many mistakes".
Cause from where I stand, overall the NDP did a pretty good job, with a few mistakes. The UCP on the other hand are a list of mistakes, with the occasional win, which is usually the result of reversing a previous terrible decision.

[Tron_fdc]

Let's also not forget who put those PPA's in place to begin with.

I'd call that one even steven.

Edit: what Canadianman said

[Slava]

Well let's also not overlook that the first order of business was an extremely ill-timed royalty review, based purely on ideology. There's a lot of "it wasn't so bad" going on here, that just has to be revisionist history.

[Fuzz]

PPA's are Delgar's NEP. Unforgivable.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well let's also not overlook that the first order of business was an extremely ill-timed royalty review, based purely on ideology. There's a lot of "it wasn't so bad" going on here, that just has to be revisionist history.

In all seriousness, how big of an impact overall do you think not doing one would have had. Do you have any quantifiable data to support how badly it affected investment or our economy? Getting a little tired of the “it scared away invest in a market that was already on the downswing anyways” rhetoric.

[Harry Lime]

Royalty Reviews should just be a matter of course. One every ten years, no matter who is in office. The only reason that it was a problem was that it was a 'surprise'. It should be predictable and budgeted for, and the results can only trigger changes that are within the confines of the limits set before the review even starts.

[Delgar]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

PPA's are Delgar's NEP. Unforgivable.

You are incorrect. "Unforgivable"? I don't even get what you suggest.

The NEP was a policy decision, hated by most Albertans because it was a wealth/asset transfer, effectively.

The PPA was incompetence supported by ideology.

I'm big on the PPA issue because I have had access to records that show how bad it really was, that aren't in the public domain. How the NDP handled the PPA issue is incompetent. It will eventually come to light unless certain lawsuits settle before they are presented to the courts. We taxpayers are paying for the legal bills, by the way. Very competent lawyers are fighting hard on this. Covid slowed the lawsuits down. Nothing against the lawyers, their job is to protect the then people running t he government, as much as they can.

But hey Fuzz, keep it up.

[Canadianman]

Originally Posted by Delgar

You are incorrect. "Unforgivable"? I don't even get what you suggest.

The NEP was a policy decision, hated by most Albertans because it was a wealth/asset transfer, effectively.

The PPA was incompetence supported by ideology.

I'm big on the PPA issue because I have had access to records that show how bad it really was, that aren't in the public domain. How the NDP handled the PPA issue is incompetent. It will eventually come to light unless certain lawsuits settle before they are presented to the courts. We taxpayers are paying for the legal bills, by the way. Very competent lawyers are fighting hard on this. Covid slowed the lawsuits down. Nothing against the lawyers, their job is to protect the then people running t he government, as much as they can.

But hey Fuzz, keep it up.

Haha, are we playing Trumpisms Bingo? If so, then I think I just won.


Will these records you are holding onto show how YUGE the incompetence is?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Delgar

You are incorrect. "Unforgivable"? I don't even get what you suggest.

The NEP was a policy decision, hated by most Albertans because it was a wealth/asset transfer, effectively.

The PPA was incompetence supported by ideology.

I'm big on the PPA issue because I have had access to records that show how bad it really was, that aren't in the public domain. How the NDP handled the PPA issue is incompetent. It will eventually come to light unless certain lawsuits settle before they are presented to the courts. We taxpayers are paying for the legal bills, by the way. Very competent lawyers are fighting hard on this. Covid slowed the lawsuits down. Nothing against the lawyers, their job is to protect the then people running t he government, as much as they can.

But hey Fuzz, keep it up.

It wasn't hated by most Albertans because most Albertans probably wouldn't even know what the PPA was. Yes, it was a screw up, I think most people aware of PPA's acknowledge that. But I'll take 10 PPA's over another UCP term.

[Delgar]

Originally Posted by Canadianman

If, after all that has happened under the UCP, you feel you can't vote for the NDP because they had to pay out some contracts that were negotiated by the previous Conservative government, then I don't think you are being honest with yourself.

Yet another person with reading comprehension issues.

I can't vote NDP because I don't support their core values, which are decades in the making.

And they've made some big mistakes.

I also don't support the UCP.

How does that make me dishonest with myself?

I regret coming back. I've been called names, attacked based on things I didn't type, and this place has become a cesspool.

[Delgar]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

It wasn't hated by most Albertans because most Albertans probably wouldn't even know what the PPA was. Yes, it was a screw up, I think most people aware of PPA's acknowledge that. But I'll take 10 PPA's over another UCP term.

You don't know even a quarter of how bad it was