Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Typed like a guy who never watched a Flames game from 80 to 85...

Measure of success is who wins a cup. We would be the Canucks with ZERO cups without Vernon.

I guarantee you I watched more games in that era. The Flames had a pretty decent team. And Vernon was good for Calgary a very short period of time two POs. You know he lost more series to the Oilers than he won, plus losing to the Jets, Kings, etc. etc. Plus he was a dick.

And no, they wouldn't have been the Canucks since they regularly beat the Canucks - eg 1984, when they beat the Canucks and then took your stacked Oilers to 7 games, and those same Oilers lost only 1 other game the whole PO. Or 83 when they also beat the Canucks. Or 82 when the Canucks didn't even make the POs.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Define not talented enough. If you want to wait until the team is as talented as the Avalanche it could be decades if ever. There's enough talent here to make the playoffs and as long as they play Sutter hockey they have a chance. There was enough talent on the team to put 3 players on the 1st and 2nd all star teams which was more than any other team so I think you are selling the team short here.

I think our blue line got exposed hugely in the playoffs. One injury to Tanev really exposed our lack of depth, and at least as of now - the inability of our top pairing to be a top pairing on a successful playoff team. This isn't surprising to me though, as I don't think we really have a top #1 defenceman that is typically seen on Stanley Cup champions (Hedman, Pietrangelo, Letang, Doughty, Carlson, Keith...Makar soon?).

If we lose Johnny, I don't believe Chucky is a 2nd team all star either.

The point that I was really getting at was that this team needs to improve, not just maintain - and losing Johnny puts us well below any marker as far as maintaining what the team had last season.

I think the rumour that Johnny has brought up the point that the team needs to add another puck carrying player is pretty on point.

[GioforPM]

^^ well, the shorter version of all of that is that you can't replace Gaudreau easily. That's not really in doubt. I wonder if you can change the team and make it more effective as a PO team. Hard but impossible? The lack of a 1Dman is there with or without Gaudreau so that's sort of a non issue. They don't have one and are not getting one any time soon. Unless you think they can get Chychrun and he is a potential 1D on a good team.

EDIT: Or if you trade for DeAngelo and give him an attitude adjustment.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ well, the shorter version of all of that is that you can't replace Gaudreau easily. That's not really in doubt. I wonder if you can change the team and make it more effective as a PO team. Hard but impossible? The lack of a 1Dman is there with or without Gaudreau so that's sort of a non issue. They don't have one and are not getting one any time soon. Unless you think they can get Chychrun and he is a potential 1D on a good team.

EDIT: Or if you trade for DeAngelo and give him an attitude adjustment.

I think the better phrasing of this is that you can't replace Gaudreau. It's not possible. No one is trading a player of his quality at this stage, and no one in free agency is close to as good as he is. The Flames need to sign Gaudreau. If they can't, and don't take a hard pivot to a rebuild - I think they're just wasting time. They won't be good enough to do anything meaningful. Do I think they'll rebuild? No.

This also isn't a Flames exclusive problem. What other team with a player of his quality would be okay with just having them walk away for nothing? The impact is crippling. I know people will argue Tavares - but Tavares isn't on Johnny's level - and even him leaving has led to the Islanders becoming one of the worst teams in the league (they fought it off a bit by being the best coached team in the league though, that's for sure - but you just can't overcome the lack of talent). I'd say Panarin is the closest in recent years and...yeah, look at Columbus. He left, and everything started unraveling. They did their best to try and keep the ball moving forward but you just can't recover from losing players THAT good.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's little doubt Treliving wasted a good portion of the team's window with poor coaching hires but as long as Darryl Sutter is the head coach they have a chance.

Maybe at making the playoffs. That's likely about it.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think the better phrasing of this is that you can't replace Gaudreau. It's not possible. No one is trading a player of his quality at this stage, and no one in free agency is close to as good as he is. The Flames need to sign Gaudreau. If they can't, and don't take a hard pivot to a rebuild - I think they're just wasting time. They won't be good enough to do anything meaningful. Do I think they'll rebuild? No.

This also isn't a Flames exclusive problem. What other team with a player of his quality would be okay with just having them walk away for nothing? The impact is crippling. I know people will argue Tavares - but Tavares isn't on Johnny's level - and even him leaving has led to the Islanders becoming one of the worst teams in the league (they fought it off a bit by being the best coached team in the league though, that's for sure - but you just can't overcome the lack of talent). I'd say Panarin is the closest in recent years and...yeah, look at Columbus. He left, and everything started unraveling. They did their best to try and keep the ball moving forward but you just can't recover from losing players THAT good.

The Islanders are not one of the worst teams in the league. They made the conference finals twice without Tavares. Last year was a disaster, not helped by a massive road trip to start the year, but even then they finished 20th.

Edit: And I doubt the Islanders are thinking re-build either.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

The Islanders are not one of the worst teams in the league. They made the conference finals twice without Tavares. Last year was a disaster, not helped by a massive road trip to start the year, but even then they finished 20th.

Edit: And I doubt the Islanders are thinking re-build either.

They freaking should be. They suck. Absolutely locked in mediocrity with no real way out. They made the conference finals riding the best coach in the league at the time, and he's gone.

[Flamesfan05]

Flames are not going to rebuild until Sutter and Treliving are gone

Johnny or not

[Lanny_McDonald]

Treliving maybe gone if Gaudreau leaves, and then Sutter may elect to pull the plug himself if the team looks to take a step backward.

[Moneyhands23]

I may be on my own here but if Johnny walks (which is his choice and that's that). Then BT should be fired and a rebuild should occur. Tkachuk is one of my favorite players, but I trade him, Backlund and Tanev. Draft top 5 twice and a lot of other picks and high end prospects (Hopefully get a 1.oa). That would set us up well in 3 or 4 years.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Treliving maybe gone if Gaudreau leaves, and then Sutter may elect to pull the plug himself if the team looks to take a step backward.

What planet do you live on?

Tre and Sutter will be coach and GM when camp starts

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I may be on my own here but if Johnny walks (which is his choice and that's that). Then BT should be fired and a rebuild should occur. Tkachuk is one of my favorite players, but I trade him, Backlund and Tanev. Draft top 5 twice and a lot of other picks and high end prospects (Hopefully get a 1.oa). That would set us up well in 3 or 4 years.

Fire a GM because one player decides to play closer to home as a UFA

Ridiculously stupid

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Fire a GM because one player decides to play closer to home as a UFA

Ridiculously stupid

Ohhhh....he has had more than 1 mistake. And hey you can disagree without being an A-hole.

[FlamesAddiction]

Losing Tkachuk for nothing would be worse. He gave him a contract that potentially walks him to unrestricted free agency at age 25. Almost unheard of for a player of that calibre.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Losing Tkachuk for nothing would be worse. He gave him a contract that potentially walks him to unrestricted free agency at age 25. Almost unheard of for a player of that calibre.

Yup..an if johnny walks I just don't see why Tkachuk would want to stay.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Losing Tkachuk for nothing would be worse. He gave him a contract that potentially walks him to unrestricted free agency at age 25. Almost unheard of for a player of that calibre.

The alternative was to let him take arbitration deals year by year until he reached UFA at age 25 anyway. Tkachuk simply was not signing away that option.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Losing Tkachuk for nothing would be worse. He gave him a contract that potentially walks him to unrestricted free agency at age 25. Almost unheard of for a player of that calibre.

Well, “gave” is doing a lot of work there.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Ohhhh....he has had more than 1 mistake. And hey you can disagree without being an A-hole.

If he leaves it's not even a mistake it's geography...next GM would have the same geography

Flames just won a division title, the GM isn't being fired

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If he leaves it's not even a mistake it's geography...next GM would have the same geography

Flames just won a division title, the GM isn't being fired

You think if johnny walks and Tkachuk just take his Quilifying offer we should just play on this season. Would you still like the g.m at the end of next year knowing Tkachuk could walk for zip. That is insanity to me.

For the record I want both players back.

[Toonage]

I have been critical of Treliving in the past but coming off a winning season, a divisional title no less, yeah he isn't going to be fired. Regardless how the FA situation plays out this summer.