Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[Hack&Lube]

Where does tax come into play? If the Flames offer him $9.5x8 = $76M USD, is that at a Canadian Tax rate?

A US team offering him $11x7 = $77M USD could be a lot more in a tax friendly state.

[Harry Lime]

When it comes to professional athletes, the tax rate issue is a little overblown. It's been broken down before, including once on CP by an accountant in the baseball thread.

Once all factors are taken into consideration, there isn't a big enough difference to make it significant. This includes, but not exclusive to, health care, schooling, real estate, cost of living and factors that are effected by a low personal income tax.

Generally speaking, if your yearly take home is less than 100K the personal income tax has significantly more weight than if you're a millionaire, because some basic living expenses remain static for every income level, but change per jurisdiction.

Things like team culture, proximity to winning, city desirability come into play to a greater extent when it comes to people making the salary of an nhl player.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Where does tax come into play? If the Flames offer him $9.5x8 = $76M USD, is that at a Canadian Tax rate?

A US team offering him $11x7 = $77M USD could be a lot more in a tax friendly state.

If you want in depth taxes for NHLers, here is some light reading


https://hockey-graphs.com/2019/01/08...-part-2-taxes/

[CalgaryFan1988]

Didn't JG ask if the Flames plan on bringing someone in to help carry the load? If that's true, I think that plays more of an impact that the taxes.

I could be misremembering though.

[mile]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Didn't JG ask if the Flames plan on bringing someone in to help carry the load? If that's true, I think that plays more of an impact that the taxes.

I could be misremembering though.

Monahammer reiterated this point in his last post two pages ago

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Here are some things:

- IF Johnny agrees to a contract from the flames, it will not be below 8 years x 9.5 million. Likely this is closer to $10 per season.
- Johnny is the highest priority contract right now, and because of cap situation his deal likely needs to be somewhat solidified before more negotiations can move forward
- There is recognition that another puck carrier is needed on the team, whether from the back end or elsewhere


I think it's getting hotter in the room. No doubt it is desirable to have a decision in hand pre draft as it allows a lot more maneuvering.

Hopefully hotter means closer to signing

[ComixZone]

So the question becomes...how do we sign Johnny AND sign Forsberg?

Treliving still needs to find out a way to improve this team, not just maintain it...certainly a pretty big challenge. I'd say this summer is probably Treliving's most challenging period of his career. Dude has to execute.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cheese

If you want in depth taxes for NHLers, here is some light reading


https://hockey-graphs.com/2019/01/08...-part-2-taxes/

That article is good, but it's a bit funny how it summarizes the wide breadth of tax issues, but then basically ignores them and falls back on very simplistic effective tax rates to make inaccurate comparisons for a player like Panarin.

The biggest mistake these articles make is applying taxes to the listed salary as the first step, instead of the last. Agent fees, escrow, deductions, credits, and jock taxes bring the taxable income in the 'home' jurisdiction way down from what we see listed as salary on capfriendly, and hence the delta between competing jurisdictions is less significant.


One little nugget I forgot about from that article:

The treaty between the United States and Canada generally protects all players on Canadian teams from jock taxes as well – except for in those states that do not follow the treaty. Those state taxes though, can be claimed on Canadian tax returns as foreign tax credits

...though ultimately I'm not sure how big of a difference that would make since jock taxes paid would be a deduction from your taxable income at home anyways...

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by mile

Monahammer reiterated this point in his last post two pages ago



Hopefully hotter means closer to signing

Monahammer is totally guessing on his most recent post points.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If it goes into the 2nd week of July we can assume it's going poorly for the Flames as they need to know his intentions days prior to free agency. I expect they have a date drawn in the sand where they will have to move on that's prior to the 13th.

He may be leaning Calgary but wants to see what the best 7 year offer is and have Calgary match it.

I'm honestly not going to sweat anything until he signs somewhere else or Calgary does something with his cap space.

[the-rasta-masta]

Is Monahammer in the know, has he revealed inside info before?

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He may be leaning Calgary but wants to see what the best 7 year offer is and have Calgary match it.

I'm honestly not going to sweat anything until he signs somewhere else or Calgary does something with his cap space.

I legitimately mean no snark whatsoever and am genuinely asking you this respectfully but is there any actual scenario that would have you “concerned” about the direction the team is going?

Personally my opinion is that if Gaudreau doesn’t get signed it is a bit of a disaster for the Flames as they have traded away high picks required for a proper rebuild. I think they’d be in pretty bad shape.

[SnipeShow]

I'm curious though from a generalized contract amount around the league, at what point does an extra dollar on that contract mean less to most players?

I'm sure everyone is glad to take home more money, because more is generally better for most of us. But when you're as rich as many professional athletes are, it make me wonder if anyone making over a certain average pay is as satisfied as anyone else making more. Is Makar more satisfied with his contract than Lindholm if he can buy 10 new boats instead of 6 on any given year?

I'd imagine once you've hit that 6.5-7AAV (maybe 3.5million take home after all the deductions) and are relatively wealthy, you're overall satisfaction probably isn't substantially higher making 9-10AAV. I don't expect any discounts from either Johnny or Tkachuk with that in mind, but would be interesting to know if anyone approaches any contract negotiations with that in mind.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I legitimately mean no snark whatsoever and am genuinely asking you this respectfully but is there any actual scenario that would have you “concerned” about the direction the team is going?

Personally my opinion is that if Gaudreau doesn’t get signed it is a bit of a disaster for the Flames as they have traded away high picks required for a proper rebuild. I think they’d be in pretty bad shape.

If you're saying I only see good, and never bad, you're wrong.

If you're saying I'm too laid back, that is certainly fair.

And for the record I never said I wasn't concerned about whether he signs or not, without Gaudreau they have to pretty much start over.

But I'm not going to make up deadlines that suggest more concern when none of us have a clue what's going on.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SnipeShow

I'm curious though from a generalized contract amount around the league, at what point does an extra dollar on that contract mean less to most players?

I'm sure everyone is glad to take home more money, because more is generally better for most of us. But when you're as rich as many professional athletes are, it make me wonder if anyone making over a certain average pay is as satisfied as anyone else making more. Is Makar more satisfied with his contract than Lindholm if he can buy 10 new boats instead of 6 on any given year?

I'd imagine once you've hit that 6.5-7AAV (maybe 3.5million take home after all the deductions) and are relatively wealthy, you're overall satisfaction probably isn't substantially higher making 9-10AAV. I don't expect any discounts from either Johnny or Tkachuk with that in mind, but would be interesting to know if anyone approaches any contract negotiations with that in mind.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

In my experience income is like closet space.

You just fill it.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

Is Monahammer in the know, has he revealed inside info before?

Lol no.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by SnipeShow

I'm curious though from a generalized contract amount around the league, at what point does an extra dollar on that contract mean less to most players?

I'm sure everyone is glad to take home more money, because more is generally better for most of us. But when you're as rich as many professional athletes are, it make me wonder if anyone making over a certain average pay is as satisfied as anyone else making more. Is Makar more satisfied with his contract than Lindholm if he can buy 10 new boats instead of 6 on any given year?

I'd imagine once you've hit that 6.5-7AAV (maybe 3.5million take home after all the deductions) and are relatively wealthy, you're overall satisfaction probably isn't substantially higher making 9-10AAV. I don't expect any discounts from either Johnny or Tkachuk with that in mind, but would be interesting to know if anyone approaches any contract negotiations with that in mind.

Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

It doesn’t work that way. Rich or poor, everyone wants more money. Your spending is relative also

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by Cheese

If you want in depth taxes for NHLers, here is some light reading


https://hockey-graphs.com/2019/01/08...-part-2-taxes/

Here is a page that does team by team comparison by salary value:
https://gavingroup.ca/nhl-tax-calculator/

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It doesn’t work that way. Rich or poor, everyone wants more money. Your spending is relative also

Not everyone's life revolves around making more money. Some people cherish the things that matter more. I always feel sorry for those who don't.

[browntrout]

The more this drags on...the more it seems like he is seeing if a team on the East coast can come close to what Calgary can offer on a 8 year deal.

[Royle9]

I’ll be sweating once the draft hits and we have no news…
How do you operate properly at the draft when your biggest asset is uncertain.
Will be rough if it’s still not done.