Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25

No mirrors in your mom's basement?

See, it's this crap that brings the board down.

[Northendzone]

so, can anyone summarize the 143 pages of this discussion so i can be fully up to speed

[BurningSteel]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

so, can anyone summarize the 143 pages of this discussion so i can be fully up to speed

Sure.


JG becomes a UFA in July. Flames have made a pitch. Ball in his court.


MT is a RFA, will get qualified as required but flames hope to have 13 sorted first.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Only on CP can I watch a poster constantly troll and stir the pot and contribute absolutely nothing and somehow still be allowed to do so on a daily basis. Go back to the Off Topic board where you usually lurk to create drama.

Actually you can find that just about anywhere. I’m like a Walmart-brand poster at best. The Joe Fresh of trolls, if you will. The President’s Choice of agitators. The $5.99 Old Navy Pocket Tee of troublemakers.

But I dunno man, explaining to someone struggling what a sign and trade is seems like a more valuable contribution than whining and telling people they can’t read. I’m here whenever you need the basics covered, and happy to post wherever on the board I feel like

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

A sign and trade where the signing team needs to move some salary would make sense. You wouldn’t take on a bad contract to do it obviously.

I think you could find value in that, in theory, with an extra sweetener.

Moving JG at 8 years to Philly for a cap dump (as they’re a bit tight to it) would probably net you a decent draft pick in the process.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think you could find value in that, in theory, with an extra sweetener.

Moving JG at 8 years to Philly for a cap dump (as they’re a bit tight to it) would probably net you a decent draft pick in the process.

I'm not talking about a cap dump but a player with value. A cap dump is something else and shouldn't need Gaudreau's rights to be involved.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If Johnny told the Flames that he was going to test free agency I think a sign and trade for a late round pick would be pretty low on Treliving's priorities as he would immediately move to signing Tkachuk long term and moving on to a contingency plan such as Forsberg as I think there's still a lot of pressure to win with Darryl as head coach and the Flames would be aggressive pursuing a big name replacement.

Agreed, he would absolutely have to do that.

He would be 100% gauging Forsberg and/or Kadri's interest in coming to the Flames.

[Vinny01]

One of the reasons I thought Debrusk could make some sense is due to his active trade request, Boston looking to retool and currently not having the flexibility to outbid a team like New Jersey or Seattle for Gaudreau on the open market.

I could see Boston being able to flip Debrusk for picks but probably not until the dust has settled on the opening of free agency. I don’t put Debrusk in the same class as Konecny who I think the Flyers could easily move at the draft and take back zero cap.

End of the day I really think Johnny signs but if he comes back to the team and ultimately says he would prefer to go East then Treliving could and should see if there are several teams he is considering and seeing if they want to work out a sign and trade to get Johnny his 8 years, lower the cap for the team acquiring him, and the Flames not left with nothing.

Taking back a contract would be a new concept in hockey when talking about sign and trades but something that I could see GM’s exploring. It allows teams who are not flush in cap space get into a spot to acquire a top UFA, and the 8th year has really become a needed lever teams need to pull in hopes of keeping the cap lower.

All hypothetical and I believe at the end of the day that Johnny signs but I do wonder if teams start paying better assets to secure the 8 year deal especially when we are talking about the premium players and the cap could be reduced more than $1M per over a long term deal

[Macman]

Johnny will be re-signing here, it’s a virtually done deal and they’re just getting it all finalized, that’s my view. Just going by everything that’s been said from Gaudreau and the Flames plus there’s been nothing or very little from other teams leaked or speculated. Also a lot of good takes by people here. I’ll be surprised if Johnny signs elsewhere, he’s being courteous to other teams and will politely decline and re-sign with the Flames.

That’s my prediction.

[DoubleK]

Yet it's not done.

I'll be shocked if we see a Flames player wearing #13 next October.

[Vinny01]

I am with you guys I think it gets done. Hearing the Devils and Kraken are the teams that have interest I just don’t see Johnny preferring there vs the 8 years here where he says both he and his family are happy.

We are still 3-4 weeks from player movement really starting so it is time to debate hypotheticals until we get some real news.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Yet it's not done.

I'll be shocked if we see a Flames player wearing #13 next October.

You want to bet on it??

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Yet it's not done.

I'll be shocked if we see a Flames player wearing #13 next October.

If you believe the rumour from yesterday, the Flames just made their first pitch.

There’s no timeline that makes it more or less likely that Johnny likes the Flames offer and sticks here. Just because it isn’t done today doesn’t mean it’s not getting done.

Landeskog went to FA and still signed with the Avs. Stamkos went through the courting period and still signed with TB two days before FA.

Timeline doesn’t really matter outside of the 8 year factor.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Agreed, he would absolutely have to do that.

He would be 100% gauging Forsberg and/or Kadri's interest in coming to the Flames.

They clearly like Kadri based on attempting to trade for him in the past so I would imagine they likely be looking at him as well. I find it hard to gauge the value of Kadri based on his career stats that seem to fluctuate from year to year and the fact that he's 31 years old. I'm not sure if a 6 year deal ends up looking very good on the back half given his inconsistency.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Macman

Johnny will be re-signing here, it’s a virtually done deal and they’re just getting it all finalized, that’s my view. Just going by everything that’s been said from Gaudreau and the Flames plus there’s been nothing or very little from other teams leaked or speculated. Also a lot of good takes by people here. I’ll be surprised if Johnny signs elsewhere, he’s being courteous to other teams and will politely decline and re-sign with the Flames.

That’s my prediction.

Your take is fine, but the bolded is kinda silly. He can't officially talk to other teams yet, and if it gets to that point it will have nothing to do with courtesy.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Landeskog went to FA and still signed with the Avs. Stamkos went through the courting period and still signed with TB two days before FA.

Timeline doesn’t really matter outside of the 8 year factor.

Landeskog signed an 8 year deal a few hours before the deadline.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

A sign and trade where the signing team needs to move some salary would make sense. You wouldn’t take on a bad contract to do it obviously.

I'm assuming most players still get their signing bonus on July 1st despite the July 13th UFA date, but I think the obvious move if it was Philly Gaudreau went to would be JVR. One year left at 7M cap hit, but 4M salary (1M signing bonus that you make Philly pay first).

I think I have a different perception than most in that if Gaudreau doesn't sign it's better to go full rebuild and hope for Bedard, which is almost assuredly something the Flames ownership wouldn't allow, but if it was up to me, get what I can from the Flyers including JVR as negative value as he's teetering on buyout candidate. Then flip JVR (ideally salary retained, but again Flames ownership wouldn't allow it). I think there would be a handful of teams that would like to get a pretty consistent "25 goal scorer" making 2M in salary, 3.5M in cap hit or wait until the deadline.

To Calgary:
JVR
2023 1st Round pick

To Philly:
Gaudreau signed at 8 years

To Arizona:
JVR @ 2M salary

To Calgary:
Arizona's third round pick (67th overall)

Flyers upgrade from JVR to Gaudreau at the expense of a future first round pick. Arizona have 7 (!) picks in the first 45 of this draft, so a third round pick is more expandable than normal and they get a player who should be able to contribute for pretty cheap salary. Try and make some noise instead of wasting another year of Keller, Chychrun and friends.

Flames recoup a pick in this year draft after trading away four of them. Get another bullet in the chamber, though I assume longshot, for Bedard.

Then win lottery, draft Bedard, sign MacKinnon/Barzal/Pastrnak/Larkin/Huberdeau/Weegar/Dumba with the cap after Lucic and Monahan are off the books. Win Cup, ez pz.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

They clearly like Kadri based on attempting to trade for him in the past so I would imagine they likely be looking at him as well. I find it hard to gauge the value of Kadri based on his career stats that seem to fluctuate from year to year and the fact that he's 31 years old. I'm not sure if a 6 year deal ends up looking very good on the back half given his inconsistency.

Yeah that's always the risk.

Kadri kind of reminds me of Mike Ribiero, who IIRC still put up 50~ points at 36 years old.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that though. If Johnny re-signs they won't have to chase inferior UFA's in an attempt to somewhat replace him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Landeskog signed an 8 year deal a few hours before the deadline.

Ah, misremembered. Knew it went right down to the wire but thought it fell on the other side of it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you believe the rumour from yesterday, the Flames just made their first pitch.

There’s no timeline that makes it more or less likely that Johnny likes the Flames offer and sticks here. Just because it isn’t done today doesn’t mean it’s not getting done.

Landeskog went to FA and still signed with the Avs. Stamkos went through the courting period and still signed with TB two days before FA.

Timeline doesn’t really matter outside of the 8 year factor.

Landeskog signed the day before FA.

The Flames reportedly made a serious offer that gives Johnny more total money than any winger except Panarin and Kane got on their contracts. And neither of those contracts were market price IMO, based on contracts signed shortly thereafter. So IMO the parties are relatively close. It’ll get done.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by BurningSteel

Sure.


JG becomes a UFA in July. Flames have made a pitch. Ball in his court.


MT is a RFA, will get qualified as required but flames hope to have 13 sorted first.

Thanks, what about potential sign and trade options along with other intangible reasons why either player may or may not sign with the flames