Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The one thing I'll say, regardless of guns, is is anybody asking the question of "Why?"

Why is this happening so frequently? It's not like the gun or the availability of guns causes people to go on a shooting rampage?

I'm really interested in the root cause of this systemic issue in the U.S.

Now, I guess we have to be really careful since we can't talk about the U.S. as a contiguous nation when it comes to gun laws, cultural, or socio-economic factors, but I'd love to hear some theories on why this is an issue in the U.S.

You can't be for real. This is an issue in the US because of the prevalence of guns and easy/unrestricted access to them. Like, that's super obvious, dude.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The one thing I'll say, regardless of guns, is is anybody asking the question of "Why?"

Why is this happening so frequently? It's not like the gun or the availability of guns causes people to go on a shooting rampage?

I'm really interested in the root cause of this systemic issue in the U.S.

Now, I guess we have to be really careful since we can't talk about the U.S. as a contiguous nation when it comes to gun laws, cultural, or socio-economic factors, but I'd love to hear some theories on why this is an issue in the U.S.

I suspect social media is ramping it up some, it seems to be an amplifier of all of humanities baser instincts, couple that with access to weaponry that makes it easier to shoot more people more quickly and body armour that makes stopping a shooter much much harder.

I'm old enough to remember when postal workers seemed to go on random shooting rampages all the time, often enough the phrase 'going postal' was coined for losing it, when you look at the history of post office shootings back in the 80's it was some guy with a pistol or shotgun who killed 3 or 4, shooting things used to be difficult, you had to reload after every 5 or 10 rounds, and most people under stress, which shooters are, are terrible shots, they need hundreds of rounds to hit one person usually, also reloading becomes a slower more difficult process, these are literally the problems the military version of the AR15 was designed to overcome, smaller ammunition so you can have many many more rounds in the magazine, creating a weapon that is easy to 'spray and pray', the ease and speed of putting rounds on moving targets (children) is the main factor in numbers of dead, I suspect the military look of most of these weapons attracts a certain type of wack job as well.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Envitro

The one thing I'll say, regardless of guns, is is anybody asking the question of "Why?"

Why is this happening so frequently? It's not like the gun or the availability of guns causes people to go on a shooting rampage?

I'm really interested in the root cause of this systemic issue in the U.S.

Now, I guess we have to be really careful since we can't talk about the U.S. as a contiguous nation when it comes to gun laws, cultural, or socio-economic factors, but I'd love to hear some theories on why this is an issue in the U.S.

It has been asked and answered.
The answer is guns, and it always has been.

Does the presence/availability of guns cause people to go on shooting rampages? Of course not.
But it absolutely ALLOWS people to do it.
The rest of the world doesn't have this level of gun violence because we/they have cracked the nut on making people not want to hurt each other, we don't have it because we've figured out maybe making it easy for every to get deadly weapons whenever they want isn't a good idea.

Do people really think there is a reason people in the US WANT to do these sorts of things more than other countries?

Why are people so committed to ignoring the fact that more guns = more shootings that they are willing to instead argue that there is something in the American DNA that makes them more violent than the rest of the world?

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by KTrain

Thank you PeteMoss. 99% of these guns start out as legal firearms. Along the way they're stolen, illegally sold, etc. and suddenly there's nothing we can do about it because they're illegal guns. Make legal guns more difficult to purchase and we can start reducing the amount of illegal guns.

It's a drop in the bucket at this point because of how many guns are out there but it's a start.

And this is where a gun control measure like a registry would come in handy. Because if you got a gun legally and you're a "responsible gun owner" it should be properly locked up and protected from theft when not in use. If there's a registry for gun owners, and one of their guns goes missing/gets stolen/ends up used in a crime, why shouldn't they be held responsible? If they were truly responsible owners, their lethal firearms wouldn't have ended up in the hands of criminals. And if they're illegally selling them/giving them to friends or family, then they're also criminals and should be prosecuted as such.

Stemming the supply of guns by making them harder to legally obtain and then supplementing that with a stringent registration process that requires annual renewal would likely do a lot to stem gun violence overall, both your "blockbuster" style mass shootings and also smaller events of gun violence.

Originally Posted by Envitro

The one thing I'll say, regardless of guns, is is anybody asking the question of "Why?"

Why is this happening so frequently? It's not like the gun or the availability of guns causes people to go on a shooting rampage?

I'm really interested in the root cause of this systemic issue in the U.S.

Now, I guess we have to be really careful since we can't talk about the U.S. as a contiguous nation when it comes to gun laws, cultural, or socio-economic factors, but I'd love to hear some theories on why this is an issue in the U.S.

I realize there have been many "it's the guns" responses in this thread but I think that really skips over the nuance you're trying to get at here.

Yes the prevalence of gun violence in this country is absolutely because of the overwhelming number of guns in circulation but what you're asking goes deeper than that and it gets down to the existence of things like Fox News, NewsMax, OANN, as well as the Marjorie Taylor Greenes and Lauren Boeberts of the world.

Gun violence like this is on the rise because a whole lot of white politicians and talking heads are telling other white people that They Are Coming For You. Black people, brown people, gay people, they're all coming for you, for your guns, for your way of life. You have to Defend Yourself. Defend Your Family. Defend Your Faith.

It is a constant barrage of fear-mongering from the right, punctuated with those same politicians posting their Christmas photos of their entire family, from toddlers on up, armed to the teeth.

The NRA and its enablers are akin to a religion in this country. These people don't just see those pushing for gun control as political oppenents. They treat this as damn near a holy war for their belief system. They are willing to sacrifice lives for their right to bear arms.

You're not dealing with a political ideology. You're dealing with a cult.

[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

It has been asked and answered.
The answer is guns, and it always has been.

Does the presence/availability of guns cause people to go on shooting rampages? Of course not.
But it absolutely ALLOWS people to do it.
The rest of the world doesn't have this level of gun violence because we/they have cracked the nut on making people not want to hurt each other, we don't have it because we've figured out maybe making it easy for every to get deadly weapons whenever they want isn't a good idea.

Do people really think there is a reason people in the US WANT to do these sorts of things more than other countries?

Why are people so committed to ignoring the fact that more guns = more shootings that they are willing to instead argue that there is something in the American DNA that makes them more violent than the rest of the world?

Maybe its the chemtrails?

[surferguy]

I think it’s the DIY shows - it’s minor lead poisoning from people working on their own homes and coming across lead paint. Similar to the drop of violent crime after lead was removed from gasoline.

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533610786056183808

[Envitro]

Cool, so everyone knows that it's the sheer number of guns, problem solved...

No confirmation bias whatsoever. It's such an obvious answer, everyone that disagrees must be a complete idiot, or a right wing Trump supporter.

Correlation = Causation

End of conversation.

Oh wait, Finland, Switzerland, Canada (to name a few), all countries with very high per capita civilian gun ownership rates, don't have the same rate of "mass shootings" as the U.S.

Is the lack of "social safety nets" a problem? What about racial diversity / tensions? What about mandated paid vacation days? There are so many areas to examine WHY someone would go and commit murders on a scale like that.

Yes, the answer to the HOW is obvious. There's no doubt that America has relatively speaking easy access to an unlimited number of guns. BUT, I was asking a pointed question on the WHY.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Dion

https://twitter.com/user/status/1533610786056183808

That tweet by that "woman" encapsulates everything that is wrong with the US right now...

Its astonishing to me that people actually voted for her and still support that POS...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Cool, so everyone knows that it's the sheer number of guns, problem solved...

No confirmation bias whatsoever. It's such an obvious answer, everyone that disagrees must be a complete idiot, or a right wing Trump supporter.

Correlation = Causation

End of conversation.

Oh wait, Finland, Switzerland, Canada (to name a few), all countries with very high per capita civilian gun ownership rates, don't have the same rate of "mass shootings" as the U.S.

Is the lack of "social safety nets" a problem? What about racial diversity / tensions? What about mandated paid vacation days? There are so many areas to examine WHY someone would go and commit murders on a scale like that.

Yes, the answer to the HOW is obvious. There's no doubt that America has relatively speaking easy access to an unlimited number of guns. BUT, I was asking a pointed question on the WHY.

no other country in the first world has as many guns as the US, they have 5 guns for every one in Canada per 100,000, we actually do have quite a high number of shootings here, mostly my guess would be due to the close proximity to the US, but basically it all about the guns, in every other respect Canada and the US arent that different

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Cool, so everyone knows that it's the sheer number of guns, problem solved...

No confirmation bias whatsoever. It's such an obvious answer, everyone that disagrees must be a complete idiot, or a right wing Trump supporter.

Correlation = Causation

End of conversation.

Oh wait, Finland, Switzerland, Canada (to name a few), all countries with very high per capita civilian gun ownership rates, don't have the same rate of "mass shootings" as the U.S.

Is the lack of "social safety nets" a problem? What about racial diversity / tensions? What about mandated paid vacation days? There are so many areas to examine WHY someone would go and commit murders on a scale like that.

Yes, the answer to the HOW is obvious. There's no doubt that America has relatively speaking easy access to an unlimited number of guns. BUT, I was asking a pointed question on the WHY.

Maybe don't sleep on wittynickname's direct response?

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Maybe don't sleep on wittynickname's direct response?

OK, yeah glossed over that one, but that's one potential theory, although fairly abstract. I'm really looking for a smattering of thoughts and opinions. One answer, as good as it might be can't be the only explanation.

How does the "it's a death cult of white people" explain the latest school shooter? Minority kid, with a clear and serious history of mental issues and animal abuse, yet nothing was ever investigated or followed-up on with regards to his threats of violence.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Oh wait, Finland, Switzerland, Canada (to name a few), all countries with very high per capita civilian gun ownership rates, don't have the same rate of "mass shootings" as the U.S.

First, read this and tell me if any of it looks or sounds like the United States:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...ion_in_Finland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...in_Switzerland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firear...tion_in_Canada

Hint: It doesn't. There are plenty more checks and balances in place in order to own guns in all of those countries that the United States simply doesn't have (never mind that their gun regulations are set nationally and not state by state).

Second, very high? Be serious, the only context in which you can say those countries have very high per capita civilian gun ownership rates is one in which you don't include the United States.

United States: 120.5 guns per 100 civilians
Canada: 34.7 guns per 100 civilians
Finland: 32.4 guns per 100 civilians
Switzerland: 27.6 guns per 100 civilians

If Canada, Finland, and Switzerland's rates are 'very high', the United States is on a different planet entirely, these are not even remotely comparable rates of ownership.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Envitro

OK, yeah glossed over that one, but that's one potential theory, although fairly abstract. I'm really looking for a smattering of thoughts and opinions. One answer, as good as it might be can't be the only explanation.

How does the "it's a death cult of white people" explain the latest school shooter? Minority kid, with a clear and serious history of mental issues and animal abuse, yet nothing was ever investigated or followed-up on with regards to his threats of violence.

As a foster parent and youth worker I can say with absolute certainty that as a state Texas has at least 2 to 300,000 reports of angry kids and adults making threats with addiction or mental health issues a year, there will be millions and millions of them across the US each year, its like saying the dude that got into an accident and killed a little old lady had three speeding tickets over the last decade so why didnt anyone see it coming? the shear number of low level mental health and addiction issues is staggering, maybe 40 or 50% of the population at some time in their lives

[CliffFletcher]

Why not both? The U.S. is peculiar among developed countries in having huge numbers of handguns, and it also has the highest rate of boys who grow up in chaotic, fatherless homes.

… Almost a quarter of U.S. children under the age of 18 live with one parent and no other adults (23%), more than three times the share of children around the world who do so (7%). The study, which analyzed how people’s living arrangements differ by religion, also found that U.S. children from Christian and religiously unaffiliated families are about equally likely to live in this type of arrangement.

In comparison, 3% of children in China, 4% of children in Nigeria and 5% of children in India live in single-parent households. In neighboring Canada, the share is 15%.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...st-one-parent/

Fatherless households correlate strongly with violent crime (85 per cent of young men in prison for violent crime come from a fatherless household).

Lots of poorly socialized and angry young men with ready access to lethal firearms = very high violent crime rates.

[PepsiFree]

Yeah, it’s not some mystery why countries with a cultural proclivity to a more democratic socialist setup/supporting and maintaining social services and tighter gun control have less gun deaths than a country that leaves everyone middle class and under to sink or swim on their own accord and gives each of them a gun to aid the journey.

[Derek Sutton]

nm. misunderstood Torque Dogs post.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, it’s not some mystery why countries with a cultural proclivity to a more democratic socialist setup/supporting and maintaining social services and tighter gun control have less gun deaths than a country that leaves everyone middle class and under to sink or swim on their own accord and gives each of them a gun to aid the journey.

I’m out of thanks, but I’m not sure you included quite enough thoughts or opinions. Smatter it up it a bit. But you can’t say trump supporter. I think that’s it for rules.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Envitro

Cool, so everyone knows that it's the sheer number of guns, problem solved...

No confirmation bias whatsoever. It's such an obvious answer, everyone that disagrees must be a complete idiot, or a right wing Trump supporter.

Correlation = Causation

End of conversation.

Oh wait, Finland, Switzerland, Canada (to name a few), all countries with very high per capita civilian gun ownership rates, don't have the same rate of "mass shootings" as the U.S.

Is the lack of "social safety nets" a problem? What about racial diversity / tensions? What about mandated paid vacation days? There are so many areas to examine WHY someone would go and commit murders on a scale like that.

Yes, the answer to the HOW is obvious. There's no doubt that America has relatively speaking easy access to an unlimited number of guns. BUT, I was asking a pointed question on the WHY.

You are being deliberately obtuse. You use guns. You love guns. You are a responsible person who has a license to buy and own guns because you live in a country with gun regulation.

In the USA (in most areas), a deranged person with the intent to commit crimes that same day could walk into a gun store and buy super dangerous semi-auto weapons without any type of checks or balances. It is their RIGHT. There are 400MM civilian owned arms in that country.

We have deranged people in Canada who likely wish they could commit crimes on the same scale, but the regulations already in place prevent them from acting impulsively. That's the difference.

You keep harping on "WHY". There is no single answer - no two shootings are the same. Orlando happened because the perp targeting LGBTs, San Bernardino targeted his coworkers for perceived injustices, Columbine was a revenge shooting against bullies, and the list goes on. Sometimes the motive is unclear, and it's just a crazy person with access to guns - like Las Vegas. Plus, there is always good ol fashioned racism and fear than run rampant in that country (and a lot of Western nations)

The WHY will never be a simple answer. But the simpler solution is to severely restrict access to the devices that are made for one single person - to kill quickly.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I’m out of thanks, but I’m not sure you included quite enough thoughts or opinions. Smatter it up it a bit. But you can’t say trump supporter. I think that’s it for rules.

Oh, right, ummmm… the fragile male ego? social media? a regression of family values, Black Lives Matter or something? the mainstream media, shock jock radio, you know, all that stuff or whatever.