Be the GM in a multiverse of madness

[Poe969]

A friend and I were talking over what the Flames might have to do this off season and how one or two decisions can have a huge impact on what the team will probably (or should probably depending on POV) do. Let's talk worse case scenario, Johnny walks as a UFA and Tkachuck says he'll only sign a one year deal then walk. Lindholm asks for a trade and the whole team is put in turmoil.

If the team was forced into a rebuild, what trades do you make? You can't just make a trade that will only help the Flames, it has to make sense for both teams. You can't just say McDavid for Monahan and Lucic (unless it has to happen now to make sense).

What if ownership finally decided to go full scorched earth (not saying they will or would or should, it's just a fun exercise to pass the time waiting for the off season) and you could trade everyone. Players with a NTC are willing to waive to go to a contender or a team that makes sense. Who do you trade, and where do you trade them to, and for what?

Markstrom: how many teams are in the market for a starting goalie?
Lindholm: what team could use a cost controlled #1b C?
Tkachuck: Lots of teams would love to have him
Mangipane, Coleman, Backlund, Hanifin, Toffoli, Tanev, anyone and everyone really.

If the team went full rebuild, what kind of returns do you think they'd get?

[Stanley]

Acquire an insane amount of picks, sign Kadri + Forsberg

[alan21]

Would Markstrom waive his NMC to go to a team like NJD or anywhere else for that matter?

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by Poe969

A friend and I were talking over what the Flames might have to do this off season and how one or two decisions can have a huge impact on what the team will probably (or should probably depending on POV) do. Let's talk worse case scenario, Johnny walks as a UFA and Tkachuck says he'll only sign a one year deal then walk. Lindholm asks for a trade and the whole team is put in turmoil.

If the team was forced into a rebuild, what trades do you make? You can't just make a trade that will only help the Flames, it has to make sense for both teams. You can't just say McDavid for Monahan and Lucic (unless it has to happen now to make sense).

What if ownership finally decided to go full scorched earth (not saying they will or would or should, it's just a fun exercise to pass the time waiting for the off season) and you could trade everyone. Players with a NTC are willing to waive to go to a contender or a team that makes sense. Who do you trade, and where do you trade them to, and for what?

Markstrom: how many teams are in the market for a starting goalie?
Lindholm: what team could use a cost controlled #1b C?
Tkachuck: Lots of teams would love to have him
Mangipane, Coleman, Backlund, Hanifin, Toffoli, Tanev, anyone and everyone really.

If the team went full rebuild, what kind of returns do you think they'd get?

[OptimalTates]

Take on all the cap dumps.

Ladd for a 2nd?

I suspect the Coyotes weren't expecting Ladd to play at all though they receive a third round pick if he plays next season. So with him playing they essentially downgrade from a second to a third and save 4M (3M signing bonus, 1M in salary).

Sharks have to decide if they want to try and be competitive with Meier, Hertl, and Couture as they enter into Meier's last year of his contract. But they can't be competitive with Burns, Karlsson and Vlasic making what they do and no goalie. Vlasic still has 4 more years with a 7M cap hit, and a NMC, so they're probably looking more at Nancy Kerriganing him than trading him but if the Flames could act as a middle man retaining salary and getting Vlasic to a team that he wants, it could be worth a boatload.

[Poe969]

NJ is who I thought abiut for Markstrom too, Lindholm to the pens, Backlund to Detroit, coleman to Dallas, Tkachuk to the sens...and yes, take on cap dumps and sign UFA's to 1 year deals.

Tank hard for Bedard and then the BOA with Connor vs. Connor

[OptimalTates]

Also Flames should be talking to Gaudreau and finding out exactly what teams he is expecting to sign with. If it's only one, well there's still some minor value in a sign-and-trade to reduce the cap-hit for the team. But let's say NJ and Philly are both completely on board in trying to acquire him and Gaudreau is nearing 50/50 on which team.

Numbers don't really matter but let's say the max Philly will offer over 7 years is 77M (11M cap), New Jersey will offer 80.5M (11.5M). Over 8 years, Philly will offer 84M (10.5M cap), New Jersey 88M (11M cap).

Because of personal preference, because of taxes, because of total value, Gaudreau's camp ranks the contracts as:

Flyers 8 year offer
Devils 8 year offer
Flyers 7 year offer
Devils 7 year offer

Well the Devils are out of the Gaudreau sweepstakes unless they do a sign-and-trade. And if they are willing to do it, Philly has to counter offer.

Allegedly the closest we got to this was a sign-and-trade with Tavares between the Islanders and Leafs. Leafs declined. But Leafs also knew that they were signing Tavares so it was simply if the cap-hit difference was worth the request. If an 8th year is the difference between a team getting Gaudreau or not, that's a huge value to the team.

Flames get value
Gaudreau gets more money
Acquiring team gets Gaudreau and a lower cap hit

It's too much of a win-win-win that the NHL GM's will screw it up though.

[Vinny01]

This won’t happen because Sutter is coming back but if Johnny walked and they wanted to go for a full rebuild here are some fantasy moves.

Agree with the above suggestion with Johnny regarding the sign and trade to a team out east get an asset.

Trade Tkachuk for the 2nd overall pick, Holtz, rights to Zacha and draft Cooley.

Trade Lindholm, Markstrom, and Valimaki to Colorado for Newhook, Byram, Girard, 1st round pick

Colorado replaces Kadri with a steal of a contract in Lindholm and his best buddy Markstrom to replace Kuemper who is a UFA.

Trade Hanifin for the best package as well as his 2 year deal will have really high value. Target 2023 1st rounder, high end prospect and take a 1-2 year cap dump. LA Kings could be a good partner, Boston as well.

If Mangiapane wanted to sign a 5-5.5M for 6-7 years then we could keep him otherwise I would be looking to trade him for a 2023 pick + something else.

Players to keep for now (unless there is a clear win in the future trade on the table)
Backlund, Toffoli, Coleman, Lucic, Monahan the rest should be kids or prospects like Phillips finally getting a chance. On the blueline keep Tanev, Anderson, Kylington and consider re-signing Zadorov or Gudbransen but not both spots need to be open for kids. Vladar gets a shot to start and a veteran backup can be signed.

Sutter needs to step aside and this team ranks for Bedard hoping to hit the jackpot.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This won’t happen because Sutter is coming back but if Johnny walked and they wanted to go for a full rebuild here are some fantasy moves.

Agree with the above suggestion with Johnny regarding the sign and trade to a team out east get an asset.

Trade Tkachuk for the 2nd overall pick, Holtz, rights to Zacha and draft Cooley.

Trade Lindholm, Markstrom, and Valimaki to Colorado for Newhook, Byram, Girard, 1st round pick

Colorado replaces Kadri with a steal of a contract in Lindholm and his best buddy Markstrom to replace Kuemper who is a UFA.

Trade Hanifin for the best package as well as his 2 year deal will have really high value. Target 2023 1st rounder, high end prospect and take a 1-2 year cap dump. LA Kings could be a good partner, Boston as well.

If Mangiapane wanted to sign a 5-5.5M for 6-7 years then we could keep him otherwise I would be looking to trade him for a 2023 pick + something else.

Players to keep for now (unless there is a clear win in the future trade on the table)
Backlund, Toffoli, Coleman, Lucic, Monahan the rest should be kids or prospects like Phillips finally getting a chance. On the blueline keep Tanev, Anderson, Kylington and consider re-signing Zadorov or Gudbransen but not both spots need to be open for kids. Vladar gets a shot to start and a veteran backup can be signed.

Sutter needs to step aside and this team ranks for Bedard hoping to hit the jackpot.

Coach of the Year needs to step aside?

Hey it is the multiverse! There is no wrong answer here.

Yet in reality the team had an amazing season.

Division winner, 2 100 point players, 3 40 goal scorers, 4 30 goal scorers. A vezina calibre goalie.

Fire the coach lol!

We had an amazing season.

Honestly we could not of expect more.

No one thought we would even be a playoff team.

[Jason14h]

Resign

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Acquire an insane amount of picks, sign Kadri + Forsberg

I’m guessing Kadri and Forsberg will go to teams that aren’t in the middle of a complete tear down.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Also Flames should be talking to Gaudreau and finding out exactly what teams he is expecting to sign with. If it's only one, well there's still some minor value in a sign-and-trade to reduce the cap-hit for the team. But let's say NJ and Philly are both completely on board in trying to acquire him and Gaudreau is nearing 50/50 on which team.

Numbers don't really matter but let's say the max Philly will offer over 7 years is 77M (11M cap), New Jersey will offer 80.5M (11.5M). Over 8 years, Philly will offer 84M (10.5M cap), New Jersey 88M (11M cap).

Because of personal preference, because of taxes, because of total value, Gaudreau's camp ranks the contracts as:

Flyers 8 year offer
Devils 8 year offer
Flyers 7 year offer
Devils 7 year offer

Well the Devils are out of the Gaudreau sweepstakes unless they do a sign-and-trade. And if they are willing to do it, Philly has to counter offer.

Allegedly the closest we got to this was a sign-and-trade with Tavares between the Islanders and Leafs. Leafs declined. But Leafs also knew that they were signing Tavares so it was simply if the cap-hit difference was worth the request. If an 8th year is the difference between a team getting Gaudreau or not, that's a huge value to the team.

Flames get value
Gaudreau gets more money
Acquiring team gets Gaudreau and a lower cap hit

It's too much of a win-win-win that the NHL GM's will screw it up though.

That’s a ton of “ifs”.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Coach of the Year needs to step aside?

Hey it is the multiverse! There is no wrong answer here.

Yet in reality the team had an amazing season.

Division winner, 2 100 point players, 3 40 goal scorers, 4 30 goal scorers. A vezina calibre goalie.

Fire the coach lol!

We had an amazing season.

Honestly we could not of expect more.

No one thought we would even be a playoff team.

In my multiverse scenario the Flames are in hard tank for Bedard. Sutter would have that team playing too good to be a bottom 3 team to really get a chance at that top pick.

My scenario is turning Tkachuk, Lindholm, Markstrom, Hanifin, and possibly Mangiapane into immediate futures and be as bad as possible. Guys like Tanev, Toffoli, and Backlund would be potential deadline deals for teams who want to get 2 runs out of those players. Coleman and Anderson have enough term they would see through the rebuild. Dube you still see what you have there, Pelletier gets a shot, and there is a spot for a call up available most of the season. Lucic and Monahan likely would be rentals moved.

It would be an aggressive rebuild starting with a top 2 pick in the draft this year and tanking for a high pick next year with that hopefully being the bottom especially if the Flames could be so lucky to pick Bedard.

This is obviously multiverse and not something I actually want to happen. I really want to hear news on long term deals with Johnny and Chucky and run it back with this core and Sutter to see if they can build off a positive year for the most part.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

This won’t happen because Sutter is coming back but if Johnny walked and they wanted to go for a full rebuild here are some fantasy moves.

Agree with the above suggestion with Johnny regarding the sign and trade to a team out east get an asset.

Trade Tkachuk for the 2nd overall pick, Holtz, rights to Zacha and draft Cooley.

Trade Lindholm, Markstrom, and Valimaki to Colorado for Newhook, Byram, Girard, 1st round pick

Colorado replaces Kadri with a steal of a contract in Lindholm and his best buddy Markstrom to replace Kuemper who is a UFA.

Trade Hanifin for the best package as well as his 2 year deal will have really high value. Target 2023 1st rounder, high end prospect and take a 1-2 year cap dump. LA Kings could be a good partner, Boston as well.

If Mangiapane wanted to sign a 5-5.5M for 6-7 years then we could keep him otherwise I would be looking to trade him for a 2023 pick + something else.

Players to keep for now (unless there is a clear win in the future trade on the table)
Backlund, Toffoli, Coleman, Lucic, Monahan the rest should be kids or prospects like Phillips finally getting a chance. On the blueline keep Tanev, Anderson, Kylington and consider re-signing Zadorov or Gudbransen but not both spots need to be open for kids. Vladar gets a shot to start and a veteran backup can be signed.

Sutter needs to step aside and this team ranks for Bedard hoping to hit the jackpot.

Also won’t happen because those are awful deals for the other teams that they would never do

[TheScorpion]

Pretty sure this is called the "CPHL."

[Moneyhands23]

F it all! We would be a top 4 team if Fox signed here. Let alone Kadri agreeing to the trade. We would be insane with Fox and Kadri.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Also won’t happen because those are awful deals for the other teams that they would never do

Which one in particular?

Devils fans are clamoring for 2nd overall + for Chucky and Friedman said the Devils might not qualify Zacha. Is Holtz the holdup?

For the Avs they lose their cheap high end number 2 center in Kadri so getting the younger Lindholm for the next 2 years at $4.85M makes them the favorite for the next 2 years. They might be looking for a new goalie so getting a Vezina nominated starter locked up for 4 years is a huge coup. They have been rumored to want to move on from Girard and Bryan’s name has been in trade rumors this year as well as injuries have plagued him in his career so far. Newhook is needed if the Flames are trading their 40 goal 82pt first line Selke nominated center or their Vezina nominated 60+ game starter in Markstrom.

25 year old, 48pt top pairing Hanifin is not worth a 1st, prospect and cap dump?

Mangiapane is not worth a 1st plus?

My deals are all fantasy land but I fail to see how they are bad value for other teams.

[topfiverecords]

Top line of Mangiapane - Backlund - Ritchie.

Prepare for the draft lottery.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Which one in particular?

Devils fans are clamoring for 2nd overall + for Chucky and Friedman said the Devils might not qualify Zacha. Is Holtz the holdup?

For the Avs they lose their cheap high end number 2 center in Kadri so getting the younger Lindholm for the next 2 years at $4.85M makes them the favorite for the next 2 years. They might be looking for a new goalie so getting a Vezina nominated starter locked up for 4 years is a huge coup. They have been rumored to want to move on from Girard and Bryan’s name has been in trade rumors this year as well as injuries have plagued him in his career so far. Newhook is needed if the Flames are trading their 40 goal 82pt first line Selke nominated center or their Vezina nominated 60+ game starter in Markstrom.

25 year old, 48pt top pairing Hanifin is not worth a 1st, prospect and cap dump?

Mangiapane is not worth a 1st plus?

My deals are all fantasy land but I fail to see how they are bad value for other teams.

Tha Avs and Devil deals are both huge overpays
You might be able to get just the 2nd for Tkachuk.
And the cap implications are also a negative for those teams
They just aren’t realistic. Point to any deals made in the cap era that resemble those at all.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Tha Avs and Devil deals are both huge overpays
You might be able to get just the 2nd for Tkachuk.
And the cap implications are also a negative for those teams
They just aren’t realistic. Point to any deals made in the cap era that resemble those at all.

This is a draft that is being panned as mediocre with no clear cut player 2-7 this is t your typical 2nd overall. When was the last time a 100+pt 40+ goal scorer was traded at 24 years old? When was the last time a 27 year old Selke nominated 40+goal 80+pt center was traded with multiple years left on a deal that paid him like a cheap second or expensive third line C?

These deals don’t happen and they won’t happen. End of the day the Devils have the space to make a move like this and their GM has stated the pick could be available for the right, young, long term piece. Obviously Tkachuk needs to agree to an extension but playing near NYC and with many young future stars there is reason to see why he would stay there.

Any team with future assets that thinks they can win a cup in the next 2 years would be racing at the chance to add Lindholm. Colorado came to mind because they are poised to lose their current second line center and have budget concerns. Any top team looking for help up the middle would and should give up their best assets for a player like that who excels in all situations.

The market for Markstrom would be limited and he has a NMC. I figure if he was bundled with Lindholm he would waive for a contender and based on Kadri and Kuemper being free agents both of these players would be fantastic replacements and in both cases I think upgrades. Colorado could pull a Tampa and win multiple cups this move ensures they keep that window wide open for at least 2 more years.

Again this is an alternate reality where the team goes in a direction I think there is zero percent chance actually happens. I hope they keep this core together. I think if they lost Johnny and decided to blow it up the following 5 assets would bring back significant futures that would accelerate the rebuild and take enough talent off the team to have them possibly be bad enough for Bedard

- 40+ goal 100+pt 25 year old power forward Tkachuk. Super unique player and every team would love to add him
- 40+goal 80+ pt 27 year old all situations center Lindholm making $4.85M for 2 more seasons would have crazy value to contending teams right against the cap
- Vezina nominated number 1 goalie Markstrom making $6M for 4 more years would have a limited market but would have value to a team looking to solidify their net for several years
- 48pt all situations, big body, smooth skating Dman Hanifin with 2 years left at $4.95M would have a ton of interest
- 35 goal, all situations, feisty 26 year old forward Mangiapane would bring a lot of value if he could come to terms on a long term deal with the team acquiring him.

Tkachuk’s and Lindholm’s are never available as they are rare players and they should garner game changing returns.