Post Mortem : What happens now?

[CliffFletcher]

I don’t dislike Hanifin. I think what you see with him at this point is what you get, his game has warts, and if the team is thinking of making a signifiant hockey trade he has value.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Hanifin is fine if he is a 2nd pairing dman

The problem is the Flames have no 1st pair and use Andersson and Hanifin as such. All the contenders have better first pairs.

How many second pairing Dmen combine for 98pts and help secure a top 3 goals against average over 82 games?

Neither Hanifin or Anderson are franchise top end Dmen but both are top 32 in the league in my opinion. Both are 25 and paid like second pairing guys. Lots of upside still in my opinion and I struggle to see how a team with such good defensive metrics does not have top pairing Dmen?

[Gaskal]

How much of that series loss is on the top pairing not playing up to par? A fair amount.

Game 1:

2nd Oilers goal. Hanifin fails to realize that Dube needs support on the wall against McDavid and is stuck in no man's land as the pass comes across.

5th Oilers goal. Hanifin gets support at the blueline to hold the puck in but for some reason doesn't commit, then fails to get the puck back deep because he's backing off instead of trying to hold possession.

6th Oilers goal. Andersson loses 1 on 1 position on McDavid. Correct play is to dive across the crease as McDavid is cutting across, but he fails to give Andersson proper support and also completely fails to take his guy Yamamoto who converts the rebound.

Game 2:

First Oilers goal - Andersson loses inside position on McDavid again. Noah gets caught puck watching and realizes far too late he left Keith wide open.

Oilers goal (got waved off though). Noah just gets turned inside out by McDavid and fails to clear the rebound that Draisaitl swats in.

3rd Oilers goal: Andersson mishandles a pass on the PP, shorthanded breakaway goal.


Game 3:

3rd Oilers goal - McDavid blows by Noah at the blueline and Rasmus fails to take the pass away.

Game 4:
Goals against mostly on the other D pairings thankfully

Game 5:

1st Oilers goal. Hanifin in no mans land covering nobody. Was a perfect screen and Markstrom saw nothing at all.

3rd Oilers goal. Hanifin not covering the backdoor pass. Rasmus not covering the rebound guy.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How many second pairing Dmen combine for 98pts and help secure a top 3 goals against average over 82 games?

Neither Hanifin or Anderson are franchise top end Dmen but both are top 32 in the league in my opinion. Both are 25 and paid like second pairing guys. Lots of upside still in my opinion and I struggle to see how a team with such good defensive metrics does not have top pairing Dmen?

They sucked as first pair against the weak Oilers team. It doesn’t matter how many points they got because they got PP and first pair ice time.

Stanley Cup champions typically have a true #1 dman like Hedman, Letang, Doughty, Keith…

You can call them 1st pair quality if you want but fact is the failed miserably in this playoffs. I would say they are the biggest disappointment after Markstrom

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They sucked as first pair against the weak Oilers team. It doesn’t matter how many points they got because they got PP and first pair ice time.

Stanley Cup champions typically have a true #1 dman like Hedman, Letang, Doughty, Keith…

You can call them 1st pair quality if you want but fact is the failed miserably in this playoffs. I would say they are the biggest disappointment after Markstrom

A weak Oilers team? The same team who has 2 players having a historic playoff run scoring points at will

There are a lot of guys who played more minutes who didn’t score 50 and 48 points last season.

Take a 5 game sample size and throw out the other 89 games then?

Neither guy is a franchise D but neither guy is even paid like a first pairing Dman. Both are great value for the contract and have upside to get better as Dmen typically do no peak until their 25-30 year old seasons

[the-rasta-masta]

I have decided to let the dust settle a bit before giving my comments, but feel like my assessment of the loss to the Oilers really falls on Markstrom mainly and Hanifin to a lesser degree. I thought Hanifin looked absolutely lost the whole series, other than when he was on the 1st power play for a few instances where I thought he really added a different dynamic to that unit than Andersson. But he looked almost nervous and scared out there, very tentative.

But I have no problem putting the big blame on Markstrom. Whether that was due to being overplayed or not, definitely something to consider. I felt we had a strong backup that could have been played more often through the season. I believe Bingo said that through games 2-5, Markstrom was letting in one goal over expected per game. You remove that extra goal from even two of the games, say game 2 and 5, and you have a tie game in Game 2 where anything can happen, and in game 5 the Flames take that win before needing OT. Then you factor in Game 4 with the gaffe to start. We lost game 2, 4, and 5 by one goal (excluding EN) so hard for me to not see the correlation and wonder what if.

That’s not even to mention the atrocious Game 1 where you wonder how much wind might have been out of the Oilers sails if they lose 9-3 instead of getting the momentum that came from tying that game. Certainly the Flames lose some confidence in the game they have played all season knowing the goaltender behind them is playing leaky.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jore

He had a good year by counting stats, but his point totals were inflated by secondary assists from higher overall team and league scoring. His primary points (goals+first assists, 14) weren't that different from his totals the year before (10) or 2019-2020 (13). His defensive metrics were nothing to write home about either. He was the second leakiest defender at expected goals against/60 and was on the ice for the most amount of actual goals against, 2nd when adjusted for ice time.

In the playoffs, he was by far the worst defender both offensively and defensively, generating nothing on the puck and surrendering the most without it. Andersson gave up 1 more goal than him but was on the ice for 4 more.

He's young but has played more than 500 games. I've seen nothing about his play in the playoffs that suggested he's improved in a pressure situation since Colorado.

Could he improve? Maybe, but I'm ready to move on and think that there are enough teams liking his profile to make a trade worthwhile. It seems like he could bring in more value through trade+replacing him than his on-ice value for the Flames.

Nice work on the numbers. They pretty much match my personal eye test. Hanifin’s offensive game is nothing special and his work in the defensive zone has always been underwhelming.

I was on the fence in regards to trading him, but after the 2 rounds of hockey we all witnessed, I think the Flames have a chance to sell high here. The team desperately needs cap space and there are a lot of enticing qualities about Hanifin that GMs will like. Left shot defensemen are easier to find and I don’t think it’ll be as hard to find a more affordable replacement as some might think.

Darryl’s system really makes a defenseman’s job easier and I think it’s a big reason why previously struggling defenders like Gudbranson, Zadorov and Kylington really flourished this season. If the Flames can find their own version of a Trouba-Pionk deal, I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.

[MrMike]

I think we need an actual powerplay specialist defenceman. One that the other team has to be afraid of for shooting or else they just cheat and cover the usual Gaudreau cross ice to Lindholm or down low to the slot.

Klingberg is going to be expensive.
Same with Letang.
Does PK Subban have anything left in the tank?

And that’s about it for free agent scoring D men.

[JohnnyB]

Tanev being out certainly revealed the need for more capacity on the D to step up and be a stabilizing force that's reliable and keeps the team steady. Rather than looking outside, I think that's just something for Rasmus and Hannifin to grow into. No doubt in my mind that Sutter will do all he can to help them find the way to their next level.

[Macho0978]

Alot of people will blame the depth of our d because it got exposed with Tanev out. Teams that have an elite 25 min a night dman don’t have better depth the have that guy as their depth.

Zadorov and kylington play bad? You have a guy that plays 25 mins a night you sit them.

This team has lots to like on d but they are missing that 2 way star. Not sure how they get it other than develop these guys. Hanifin kylington and rasmus are all 25 years old with limited playoff experience. They still have room to grow but right now none can handle a McDavid type player


Might not be popular opinion either but we should give McDavid some credit. He is pretty tough to handle especially with a loaded up line with Leon and Kane. I hate the oilers as much as anyone but McDavid offensively is an all time great and if he stays healthy for next couple years might get career points 1000 well before age 30. Has a chance to get before he turns 28. That’s pretty good.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How many second pairing Dmen combine for 98pts and help secure a top 3 goals against average over 82 games?

Neither Hanifin or Anderson are franchise top end Dmen but both are top 32 in the league in my opinion. Both are 25 and paid like second pairing guys. Lots of upside still in my opinion and I struggle to see how a team with such good defensive metrics does not have top pairing Dmen?

The team can't have a love affair with every player they trade for. If you can trade Hamilton you sure as hell can trade Hanifin.

[GullFoss]

If Lucic retires after collecting his $3m bonus, does the bonus count against the cap?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

If Lucic retires after collecting his $3m bonus, does the bonus count against the cap?

Not if he forges some Covid documents first

Then dollars disappear

Poof!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by memphusk

The team can't have a love affair with every player they trade for. If you can trade Hamilton you sure as hell can trade Hanifin.

You can trade Hanifin just not sure why? I am reading a lot of people saying we need to improve the blueline so trading a top 2 guy doesn’t seem like the best move especially when he is 25 and out performs his cap hit significantly

[GS Skier]

While I completely agree with the "don't fall in love with players" (see Sam Bennett and Micheal Ferland ) and if they did trade Hanafin they should get a real haul. However with the age, skating, experaince, contract and he's 6'3" 215 why would you? Anderssons 6'1"215 and he can skate.

We don't have a Hedman on defense and we won't get one by trading Hanafin so of all the Cap Space clearing ideas it seems pretty unlikely.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Nice work on the numbers. They pretty much match my personal eye test. Hanifin’s offensive game is nothing special and his work in the defensive zone has always been underwhelming.

I was on the fence in regards to trading him, but after the 2 rounds of hockey we all witnessed, I think the Flames have a chance to sell high here. The team desperately needs cap space and there are a lot of enticing qualities about Hanifin that GMs will like. Left shot defensemen are easier to find and I don’t think it’ll be as hard to find a more affordable replacement as some might think.

Darryl’s system really makes a defenseman’s job easier and I think it’s a big reason why previously struggling defenders like Gudbranson, Zadorov and Kylington really flourished this season. If the Flames can find their own version of a Trouba-Pionk deal, I’d do that deal in a heartbeat.

This is a comment I see a lot that I don't really understand.
When fans decide a team should get rid of a player that just isn't good enough, they say it's time to sell high. How is it selling high if the other teams are likely more aware of a players problems than the fans are?

I think that when fans believe it's time to sell high, it's too late to do so.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

This is a comment I see a lot that I don't really understand.
When fans decide a team should get rid of a player that just isn't good enough, they say it's time to sell high. How is it selling high if the other teams are likely more aware of a players problems than the fans are?

I think that when fans believe it's time to sell high, it's too late to do so.

Yeah, selling high is what you do when a player has an awesome season that you doubt they can repeat. You could make that case for Mangiapane (though I wouldn't). But it doesn't apply to Hanifin after having a weak playoff series.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

They sucked as first pair against the weak Oilers team. It doesn’t matter how many points they got because they got PP and first pair ice time.

Stanley Cup champions typically have a true #1 dman like Hedman, Letang, Doughty, Keith…

You can call them 1st pair quality if you want but fact is the failed miserably in this playoffs. I would say they are the biggest disappointment after Markstrom

Yes, he struggled with the matchup against McDavid.

And yes, it would be great to have a Hedman.

But that is not a reason to get rid of Hanifin. You don't trade second line players, simply because they aren't first line players. Hanifin is a solid top 4 Dman when used properly. And he is good value for his contract.

But if you can trade him for Hedman, then sure, let's do that.

[Royle9]

Having an elite #1 offensive D man (Makar, Fox etc) would be ideal.
I think it makes every team extremely better.

Its sad Fox shafted the Flames, we'd be in amazing shape had he not been a total pisshead and flaked off.

Sadly, those players dont grow on trees so you have to draft one or get lucky via trade/FA which likely wont happen.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

If Lucic retires after collecting his $3m bonus, does the bonus count against the cap?

It must, otherwise he's getting compensation without it counting against the cap.

I question whether he could even keep the bonus?