Post Mortem : What happens now?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Give massive long term contracts to 2 natural left wingers, don't get an elite #1C or #1D, and keep trading prospects/picks. Profit?

Who was the last team to win a cup without either a #1C or a #1D or a home grown goalie, let alone none of those? They've passed on elite goalie prospects too many times. Winning teams are built through the draft, and down the middle. It's easier to get high end wingers as free agents and through trades as teams aren't giving up elite C's or G's or even D's in trades too often.

I love the team but their current strategy is not a winning one. You won't win the cup with 2 smaller wingers as your best/highest paid players.

So a selke nominated point per game, 40+ goal guy in Lindholm is not a number 1C?

Tkachuk is a smaller winger?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Poe969

You mentioned Tampa, Pittsburgh, San Jose, and Washington. 3 of those 4 teams won the cup and all 4 had a #1C I would take before any of our C's, a #1D I would take before any of our D and a home grown goalie. The 3 teams who won the up did it with top picks and were built through the draft.

So is your point that teams built through the draft with top picks with elite #1C's, #1D's, and home grown goalies usually end up being up winners? Side note: holtby is the only goalie on that list who wasn't the highest ranked goalie in their draft, Markstrom was the first goalie drafted in 08...but not by the Flames.

No, you completely missed my point while simultaneously and inaccurately attempting to tell me what my point was lol

[chedder]

In the last 3 years we've made the playoffs and got taken to the woodshed. Missed the playoffs. Then made the playoffs, barely made it out of the first round then got handily beat in 5. I suppose that's progress but it's an odd way to do it.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by chedder

In the last 3 years we've made the playoffs and got taken to the woodshed. Missed the playoffs. Then made the playoffs, barely made it out of the first round then got handily beat in 5. I suppose that's progress but it's an odd way to do it.

You missed a year I think, unless you started with the Dallas bubble year where they won the play in vs WPG and then were seconds away from going up 3-1 vs Dallas in round 1, who then ended up going all the way to the finals that year.

People keep saying the Flames barely got past the first round this year, which is true, but how about a little context?

Dallas is a grizzled veteran team that had won 5 playoff rounds over the last two seasons, and while they were a wild card team they were also 30-15 with Oettinger in net this season and the guy almost single handedly stole that series with 14+ goals saved above average over a 7 game series.

14+

He was nearly double the second best goalie in round 1

The Flames were great that series, and should have roasted the Stars in 5 games, but that prick Oettinger stretched it out into a long battle that ended up costing the Flames some key injuries which really hurt them in round 2.

[Winsor_Pilates]

"Barely made it out of the 1st round" is such a lazy comment.
Almost every Stanley Cup finalist will have a 7 game series on the way, often a game 7 OT.

Flames barely made it out if round 1 in 89 & 2004 too.

[Geeoff]

You know when Kipper had a bad game, he'd respond with a 40 save shutout or something? Hopefully, Markstrom does similar by responding to his playoff performance with a dominant run next playoffs.

[howard_the_duck]

If the team played as structured around him in the playoffs as they did all season long, we wouldn’t be talking about Markstrom’s poor playoff performance.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

If the team played as structured around him in the playoffs as they did all season long, we wouldn’t be talking about Markstrom’s poor playoff performance.

Probably, so you have to ask yourself why they lost their structure so badly.

1. McDavid, guy is hard to contain, especially with frequent 4 on 4
2. Key injury to our best defensive Dman Tanev
3. Key injury to our biggest, most physical defensive Dman Zadarov


No way to fix any of those issues. Just a generational talent and some piss poor luck.

[Poe969]

4. Other team's stars elevated their play while Flames star players fizzled out.
5. Flames depth scoring disappeared

The Flames lacked an elite #1D to control the back end, Tanev was a huge loss along with Z not at 100% but neither are capable of carrying the D. The Flames also didn't have a game breaking C to carry the offense. Lindholm was forced to play defensive and Backlund looked like the team's best player, as great as it is, when he's the best player on your team, your team isn't going far.

Again, I love the team and think if they keep it together they will have a good season and make the playoffs but they can't compete with teams who have an elite #1C and/or an elite #1D. What the team is missing doesn't look readily available by trade or as UFA's so I don't know how they can acquire them. Brad has shown he's good at signing young players to good contracts, I th8nk he would do well 8n a rebuild. They won't though.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

You know when Kipper had a bad game, he'd respond with a 40 save shutout or something? Hopefully, Markstrom does similar by responding to his playoff performance with a dominant run next playoffs.

Markstrom responded to a game letting in 4+ goals with a game letting in 4+ goals again.

Responding the next game is a mark of a good kind of consistency. Responding with a run a long time in the future is being streaky

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

"Barely made it out of the 1st round" is such a lazy comment.
Almost every Stanley Cup finalist will have a 7 game series on the way, often a game 7 OT.

Flames barely made it out if round 1 in 89 & 2004 too.

If you go to game 7 in overtime, you barely made it. Not lazy, just a fact. They could have just as easily had one more goal scored on them and we'd be lamenting another first round loss.

Doesn't negate the fact they persevered and will be better for it. But they definitely squeaked through the first round.

Losing a game 7 overtime in round 1 is a lot different than the conference final.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

"Barely made it out of the 1st round" is such a lazy comment.
Almost every Stanley Cup finalist will have a 7 game series on the way, often a game 7 OT.

Flames barely made it out if round 1 in 89 & 2004 too.

The Flames won in OT in game 7, after the Stars hit the post in OT.

That's as barely as it gets.

[PuckSlap]

The flames are historically a team of bad excuses.

Who cares if there were injuries from the Dallas series? I’m sure the oilers have their fair share of them too. Is pissy pants hurt? The guy skated better than half our team, with a broken foot.

Flames just aren’t that good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap

The flames are historically a team of bad excuses.

Who cares if there were injuries from the Dallas series? I’m sure the oilers have their fair share of them too. Is pissy pants hurt? The guy skated better than half our team, with a broken foot.

Flames just aren’t that good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stupidest sentiment ever is for a fan to dismiss injuries.

Players dismiss them because they have to. Fans don't, and it's a legit reason why team performance drops.

It's like sending an MMA fighter into the ring with one arm tied behind his back, and after he gets his ass kicked saying "Don'T GivE mE yOur ExCuseS DerrRR!"

[PuckSlap]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Stupidest sentiment ever is for a fan to dismiss injuries.

Players dismiss them because they have to. Fans don't, and it's a legit reason why team performance drops.

It's like sending an MMA fighter into the ring with one arm tied behind his back, and after he gets his ass kicked saying "Don'T GivE mE yOur ExCuseS DerrRR!"

Not dismissing the injury. I’m dismissing the lack of fortitude. Half the team disappeared against the oilers, but the oilers 2nd and third line players outplayed our first line guys..

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Probably, so you have to ask yourself why they lost their structure so badly.

1. McDavid, guy is hard to contain, especially with frequent 4 on 4
2. Key injury to our best defensive Dman Tanev
3. Key injury to our biggest, most physical defensive Dman Zadarov


No way to fix any of those issues. Just a generational talent and some piss poor luck.

It’s what happens in a 7 game series. I think our personnel were exploited where in an 82 game season it doesn’t happen the same.

Anytime the flames play teams that play with pace it was a problem, and a quick in series adjustment by the oilers had the team reeling and playing out of structure.

Getting quicker and steadier on the back end would be a priority from my vantage point this off-season. I think the forwards can score enough and win with Sutter’s structure, and more depth is on the way from Stockton to make our bottom 6 a bit more potent.

I think this team is formidable with a bit more pace in their bottom 6 and D that are less error prone and more mobility.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So a selke nominated point per game, 40+ goal guy in Lindholm is not a number 1C?

Tkachuk is a smaller winger?

They need another Centre who’s at least as good as Lindholm.

This shouldn’t even be arguable at this point.

[Savvy27]

Flames also overcame a genuine historically dominant goaltending perfomance. They outplayed the Stars by a long shot in round one and without Oettinger's herculean contribution the series would like likely never have made it to 7. Bizarre that fans are actually downplaying a series win. Anything to find a negative.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by PuckSlap
The flames are historically a team of bad excuses.

Who cares if there were injuries from the Dallas series? I’m sure the oilers have their fair share of them too. Is pissy pants hurt? The guy skated better than half our team, with a broken foot.

Flames just aren’t that good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He has a broken foot?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

They need another Centre who’s at least as good as Lindholm.

This shouldn’t even be arguable at this point.

It would certainly be nice, but how does one obtain one of these coveted guys?

Much like obtaining Lindholm, you need to get them before they break out, and you need to give up lots to get one.

Any suggestions of a centre likely to break out that his team has lost faith in?

And what will Calgary be dangling to obtain one? Trading Hanafin, for example, to obtain such a centre is not likely to bring immediate dividends, and leaves a giant hole at d.