He kind of is actually. He’s been on the ice for the most 5 on 5 goals against among all forwards. In other words, there are no Flames forwards who’ve been on the ice for more 5 on 5 goals allowed than Monahan. At the moment, he’s only behind some defensemen but that’s because there’s only 6 that dress per game and they play more minutes then forwards.
In my opinion, the biggest reason why is due in part to how much he and his line give up when they’re trying to score. Going back to Geoff Ward’s classic quote: “it’s not always what you make, it’s what you leave” and his line leaves a lot for the opposition.
This is then exacerbated by how little his line scores. If you’re always taking in water, eventually, you’re gonna drown at some point. You gotta propel the team forward and having a GF% of 38% is in the liability category.
Like I said though, I don’t think his poor play is due to laziness or poor work ethic. He’s working his ass off out there. Even his work down low and his one on one defending has been just fine. He’s just not made for Darryl’s system. The pace and emphasis on checking might just be too much.
I agree with most of what you said, but the first part is slightly inaccurate. Gaudreau was on the ice for 39 goals against at even strength, Tkachuk 37, Monahan 36, Lindholm 35. Granted they have 4 more mins of average ice time at even strength, and play much tougher competition than Monahan. They are also on the ice for a lot more goals for - Gaudreau 85, Tkachuk 77, Lindholm 79, to Monahan’s 21.
I agree if most of what you said, but the first part is slightly inaccurate. Gaudreau was on the ice for 39 goals against at even strength, Tkachuk 37, Monahan 36, Lindholm 35. Granted they have 4 more mins of average ice time at even strength, and play much tougher competition than Monahan. They are also on the ice for a lot more goals for - Gaudreau 85, Tkachuk 77, Lindholm 79, to Monahan’s 21.
If Sean's nickname is Moneyhands he trades in Russian Rubles. Guy is just trash this year, if some are happy with him being "okay" on the 4th line than okay but that's not going to cut it. His defensive game is poor and his give-a-crap level has never been beyond luke-warm.
Lucic will be an important player come playoff time. I thought he was pretty good in the 2020 playoffs and his physicality and board play will be vital in those tough, stuck in the muck type games. He may a have harder time keeping up in some of the run & gun regular season games, but his heavy style of game is 100% suited for the playoffs.
Agreed. but he needs a rest.
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Originally Posted by Temporary_User
I will eat a pubic hair if Giordano ever plays in the NHL again
Monahan’s time has come. He will easily be outplayed by Carpenter and others.
The organization gave the guy every single chance to succeed over the past few years, and rightly so. It was never effort or care. He succeeded extremely well at a young age and was given the “A” for a reason. Unfortunately his injuries caught up to him and the type of game he plays is extremely ineffective if he’s not scoring.
Unfortunately hockey is a business. The Flames are truly a contender this year, which doesn’t happen often, and there’s no room to feel sorry for a guy and put him in a lineup when he can’t keep up.
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(Edit: re rest) As does Monahan. Clearly this is a poor year for him, and I think just as clearly it relates to the off season surgeries. He's not right, he hasn't been right all season. There was a brief trend up but it's sagging again. And like every year, we are wringing our hands wondering what's wrong (and it always turns out he's been playing with 9 broken bones). Dude needs to get healthy.
He's not good 4th liner. His game has never been checking, it hasn't really been, to my eyes, possession/forecheck stuff either. He's a shooter with no shot right now.
Hope he can get right, or barring that, Carpenter can step in and play some tougher minutes than Monahan currently can.
(Edit: re rest) As does Monahan. Clearly this is a poor year for him, and I think just as clearly it relates to the off season surgeries. He's not right, he hasn't been right all season. There was a brief trend up but it's sagging again. And like every year, we are wringing our hands wondering what's wrong (and it always turns out he's been playing with 9 broken bones). Dude needs to get healthy.
He's not good 4th liner. His game has never been checking, it hasn't really been, to my eyes, possession/forecheck stuff either. He's a shooter with no shot right now.
Hope he can get right, or barring that, Carpenter can step in and play some tougher minutes than Monahan currently can.
I agree with this but the fact is he is just not able to contribute to the team right now. Sit him or put him on LTIR. If his issue is injury related then let it heal and suit up next year. We may need the old Monahan, if he exists anymore, when one of more of our core moves on. If it's not injury related then I think we have no choice but to buy him out or find a suitor in the off-season with something tagged along to make it work.
Either way, he is not helping the team right now. We need to think right now right now!
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Didn't Monny have 4 goals in that 4-game sweep vs the Avs? Like I seem to remember he scored a PPG in every game of that series or something like that...
It was actually a 4 game sweep by the Ducks in 2017. But you're correct that he had 4 goals in 4 games.
He had 1 goal in the 5 game loss to Colorado two years later (2019), and then 2 goals in 10 games of the COVID bubble playoffs (2020).
His quibble will be that even strength includes 3-3 and 4-4 and he specifically says 5-5.
Well why would I include 3-3 and 4-4’s when Monahan doesn’t even play in these situations. It wouldn’t be an honest assessment at that point. I’m not here to placate Monahan’s feelings or his fan’s feelings with false narratives and candy coating. It’s about intellectual honesty here and it’s pretty obvious that management feels the same way.
Their assessment is the same as mine, Monahan has been inadequate in his role, so they’ve found a defensive-minded center to replace him with.
Best players play. That’s the scenario they were trying to get to and they have accomplished it. You shouldn’t be assured a lineup spot because of your salary alone.
They have enough bottom 6 players to rotate people in if others are under performing or even elevate guys into the top 6 for the same reason.
I think our defensive pairings are more or less set.
Well why would I include 3-3 and 4-4’s when Monahan doesn’t even play in these situations. It wouldn’t be an honest assessment at that point. I’m not here to placate Monahan’s feelings or his fan’s feelings with false narratives and candy coating. It’s about intellectual honesty here and it’s pretty obvious that management feels the same way.
Their assessment is the same as mine, Monahan has been inadequate in his role, so they’ve found a defensive-minded center to replace him with.
He’s been inadequate in his role for a few seasons now. I think this is his last season as a Flame. My guess is they will buy him out at the end of the season. I doubt you could trade him at this point.
If Sean's nickname is Moneyhands he trades in Russian Rubles. Guy is just trash this year, if some are happy with him being "okay" on the 4th line than okay but that's not going to cut it. His defensive game is poor and his give-a-crap level has never been beyond luke-warm.
I don’t think that’s totally fair. I think his effort level has been high. He’s just in a role he’s not suited for. The bigger problem is he’s getting paid for a role he doesn’t have the skillset to cover off anymore.
Monahan is a defensive liability, so if you play him higher in the lineup he better produce offensively at even strength. But he doesn’t. The guy couldn’t even score with one of the best setup men in the NHL feeding him pucks last season. And playing him with Mangiapane and Coleman (who will have to cover for his defensive assignments) will bring the magic back?
That’s the thing about being a one-dimensional sniper in the NHL. Once the goals dry up, you no longer offer any value to a roster. Especially if your skating isn’t good enough to reinvent yourself as a checker.
That's a little much.
Monahan's issue has been his offence, not his defense. He's right in the middle of the pack in terms of expected goals against this season.
He's not scoring, and no one he plays with scores so they end up a negative, but not because he's giving up more than the average forward.
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