Practice notes March 24 - Monahan & Lewis to be scratched next game?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I'm not sure if that is how the human body works.

No use for his wingers to speed down the ice if Monny is lumbering behind.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Lewis should be out for sure, but I don't agree with scratching Monahan. He's been good in his time away from Lewis.

As evidenced by his last outing where he was as awful as he's even been this season.

Just stop making excuses for Monahan. He's awful and has been awful for several seasons now - at or below replacement level bad. It's time for him to take a seat. A long seat. At least Lewis kills penalties and is willing to play with reckless abandon.

What positive remarks can anyone even say about Monahan as he racks up more brutal giveaways and minus ratings on this incredibly stingy team. I had no expectations of him coming in, but he's even managed to be worse than I thought. I guess he has a good attitude? Maybe $6M/year will do that to just about anyone.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I don’t think his effort or desire is in question. He just lacks and ability to play the checking style Darryl requires from his players. It’s not his game and it’s not in his DNA.

I wish it were that simple but he was nearly just as bad under the previous coaching staff. The only difference was that he was still being spoon fed top 6 deployment with highly talented players to boost his point totals somewhat.

It's not deployment that is causing this nosedive - if that were the case wouldn't he still have racked up PP points while on PP1 for the bulk of the first half of the year and then PP2 until recently? The player was just never that good to begin with and as we've seen many times before, took a massive nosedive once the league figured out how vanilla his game was and how to shut it down.

Injuries surely contributed to this all, but a quality player would still find a way to be semi productive on special teams. He quite honestly adds nothing and similar to last season, goes games on end where you can often not even recall if you noticed him.

[CroFlames]

I think Sutter is sitting Monahan because he thinks Monahan can respond to that.

Would Lucic respond if he was sat? Maybe he just doesn't have much to give anymore.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I wouldn't even say that it's a checking style. It's just a 2-way style. I would never say that Gaudreau is a checking player but he has adapted perfectly to Darryl's 200 foot game and has been rewarded with career highs for it.

I actually think Gaudreau has fabulous checking skills. He’s got great agility and a quick first step, so he can pressure with his speed. He also has a strong core which helps him win some surprising 50/50s and he has great hockey IQ, so he has excellent timing and anticipation. I think for Gaudreau though, it’s always been about will. Like most elite scorers, the desire to conserve energy for the offensive side is ingrained. But I’m glad Darryl forced him to get into better shape and to never cheat on the defensive side.

Monahan on the other hand doesn’t have the quick feet or the heavy game to be an impactful checker IMO. I find him to be late on his reads, overextends on his check attempts and not quick enough for effective back pressure at times which in combination, hurts his ability to check for his chances and leads to vulnerabilities defending the rush.

Lucic is kind of in a similar boat as Monahan. But despite being an even slower skater, at the very least, when defenders hear those footsteps, they rush plays and make mistakes. I think that keeps Lucic in the line up especially in the playoffs.

[Vinny01]

I think Lucic should sit some games down the stretch. He could be a key factor in a playoff series and he just looks gassed out there. He needs to be fresh come playoff time and has really fallen off after a great start to the year

[NewFan]

For me, Monahan's play in own zone is his biggest weakness that Sutter doesn't like.
He looks like has some kind of difficulty to clear the puck when he gets the puck in own zone. If other teams forecheck is faster and tighter, Monahan usually the target for turnover.

He is good at PO, but he and Backlund are not good when they lose the puck. We usually don't see the extra fight from them for the puck like Mangi, Toffoly or Lindholm.

I think Monahan can play top 6 winger, but he needs to improve his forecheck, puck battle skill and needs to learn how to clear the puck in own zone.

Lucic is one of the winger usually very effective for that.

[Bingo]

I'm honestly done hoping Monahan turns it around, he was given some chances and it just didn't happen ... thought the Toffoli add was his best chance.

When you dig into metrics it's clear that Monahan, Lucic and Lewis are the three that are struggling the most. Ritchie has great numbers but no finish, and could be an outlier.

To me the debate is just who comes out.

I personally like what I see from Monahan more than Lewis and to a lesser degree Lucic in the past while, but that could be a bias.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm honestly done hoping Monahan turns it around, he was given some chances and it just didn't happen ... thought the Toffoli add was his best chance.

When you dig into metrics it's clear that Monahan, Lucic and Lewis are the three that are struggling the most. Ritchie has great numbers but no finish, and could be an outlier.

To me the debate is just who comes out.

I personally like what I see from Monahan more than Lewis and to a lesser degree Lucic in the past while, but that could be a bias.

The question is, who do you want to battle in a playoff series this year?
I'm not taking a chance on butter soft Monahan to pull through and make a difference when the stakes are high.

I know I'd take Lucic-Carpenter-Lewis as guys who have all gone the distance and are more than willing to sacrifice themselves for the team to make a play or win board battles when it counts.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

The question is, who do you want to battle in a playoff series this year?
I'm not taking a chance on butter soft Monahan to pull through and make a difference when the stakes are high.

I know I'd take Lucic-Carpenter-Lewis as guys who have all gone the distance and are more than willing to sacrifice themselves for the team to make a play or win board battles when it counts.

I know you would ... you make your dislike for the player very very clear.

I see three flawed players, and to me one of them is doing less damage than the other two in moving pucks, sustaining a cycle, and creating a break out.

You don't have to agree, but I see more issues from Lewis and Lucic as I said.

Monahan is never going to be a best, but he's certainly shown more battle this year than in any other.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I wish it were that simple but he was nearly just as bad under the previous coaching staff. The only difference was that he was still being spoon fed top 6 deployment with highly talented players to boost his point totals somewhat.

It's not deployment that is causing this nosedive - if that were the case wouldn't he still have racked up PP points while on PP1 for the bulk of the first half of the year and then PP2 until recently? The player was just never that good to begin with and as we've seen many times before, took a massive nosedive once the league figured out how vanilla his game was and how to shut it down.

Injuries surely contributed to this all, but a quality player would still find a way to be semi productive on special teams.

Trust me. I’ve been beating this drum for a long time. I’ve never been a Monahan guy. I actually wanted Bo Horvat instead. I remember watching these 2 compete in the 2015 playoffs and I was shocked at how much I liked Horvat’s game over Monahan’s.

But I simply cannot question his compete or effort this season. He’s working hard out there. He just doesn’t have the skillset for this kind of style. He’s a “half court” offensive style player who’s more suited to be a powerplay specialist than a guy who has to relentlessly check for his chances or play in the guts of the game. It’s just not in his DNA.

[NewFan]

This season after Sutter implemented his system I started to understand how much we missed really good, reliable role players before.
I started to like Lewis, Richardson, Lucic and Ritchies even Dube.
When you need kill the time in the end of period, or pressure other team or just after we score or a goal against, these guys bring same type of energy and keep the game like we want. I don't worry about some stupid mistakes or turnovers from them when they are on ice.

[Harry Lime]

I feel kind of bad for Monahan. The best thing for his career would have been a trade to Boston, where he would be utilized differently. I guess he will just have to be a roleplayer on a Cup winning team in Calgary, instead.

[djsFlames]

Lucic and Monahan have been the weakest links.

They need to be better. Passing, backchecking and puck management.

If Dube can elevate his game the way he has so can they.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I feel kind of bad for Monahan. The best thing for his career would have been a trade to Boston, where he would be utilized differently. I guess he will just have to be a roleplayer on a Cup winning team in Calgary, instead.

Rough.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I wish it were that simple but he was nearly just as bad under the previous coaching staff. The only difference was that he was still being spoon fed top 6 deployment with highly talented players to boost his point totals somewhat.

It's not deployment that is causing this nosedive - if that were the case wouldn't he still have racked up PP points while on PP1 for the bulk of the first half of the year and then PP2 until recently? The player was just never that good to begin with and as we've seen many times before, took a massive nosedive once the league figured out how vanilla his game was and how to shut it down.

Injuries surely contributed to this all, but a quality player would still find a way to be semi productive on special teams. He quite honestly adds nothing and similar to last season, goes games on end where you can often not even recall if you noticed him.

Prior to Toffoli being acquired and replacing him - Sean Monahan was the most productive points/60 player on the top unit.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I know you would ... you make your dislike for the player very very clear.

I see three flawed players, and to me one of them is doing less damage than the other two in moving pucks, sustaining a cycle, and creating a break out.

You don't have to agree, but I see more issues from Lewis and Lucic as I said.

Monahan is never going to be a best, but he's certainly shown more battle this year than in any other.

I definitely agree with you that Monahan has shown a much higher battle and compete level compared to his past self which could be easily described as lazy. I give Monahan big time credit for upping his intensity and compete level.

But in terms of Lucic vs Monahan, I’m going to have to give Lucic the edge here. Both have not performed well, especially when together. But Lucic has more potential to be effective in my opinion. He actually had a very good first half of the season, but when paired away from Monahan, I’ve liked his game. Even against NJ, the one night he has away from #23, he scores a goal and creates another on a very good screen.He also creates turnovers with his physicality and can wear down defensemen in a 7 game series. Like, it’s not even a contest who I’d rather have in the playoffs between the 2 players.

Lucic plays in the guts of the game, Monahan doesn’t which is unfortunate, because that might be the only way he salvages his career. If Monahan truly wanted to score again, he’d start fighting for space in front of the net, take the punishment, screen goaltenders, tip pucks or bang home rebounds. Of the 3 even strength goals he has scored this season, not one one them has looked like this. Instead, he just shoots low percentage shots and waits in the slot for a pass that’s never going to come.

It’s odd because I feel like he’s transformed his game down low defensively. He battles like I’ve never seen him before, very assertive, very physical. But for whatever reason, he hasn’t transferred that same style to the offensive side. He’s 6’3 for crying out loud, he has the frame to effectively screen goaltenders. It’s not like he’s 5’6 Johnny who’d be a terrible net front presence out there.

[SuperMatt18]

I think all of Lucic, Monahan, Lewis should be sat at times over the next couple weeks.

Need to keep guys fresh and get guys in games so they aren't rusty if needed in the playoffs.

Also once this team hits 102 points which probably is pretty close to winning the division then you start to sit some of the top 9 too and maybe give some of the farm hands a look.

Need to be fresh and rested in the playoffs, will be a huge advantage to be able to do that after all teams had a condensed schedule this year.

IIRC Sutter has said you need 16 forwards, and 10 d-men to be able to win a cup. Good to be able to give all of those guys you might need some NHL time before the season is over if possible.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

Prior to Toffoli being acquired and replacing him - Sean Monahan was the most productive points/60 player on the top unit.

Not even surprised to hear that. Monahan is just fine as a PP guy, he has all the time and space in the world to make a play. He’s got good vision and nice hands around the net, so he can make a slick pass and finish in tight. But the problem is, he’s not good at creating time and space for himself and his linemates. He needs someone to do it for him which use to be Gaudreau, but obviously he has since moved on.

That’s why Monahan can’t transfer his offensive skills at 5 on 5. He’s still got plenty of tools, but the tool box is just too heavy for him to carry around. He can’t check for his chances, that’s not his style. He’s just a run & gun guy playing high risk rope-a-dope or he’s a PP specialist. That’s it. He might be able to score somewhere else, but it ain’t gonna be under Darryl’s checking system, that’s for sure.

[TheIronMaiden]

Everyone should get a chance to sit for the next ten games. That said, I want the Flames to roll a dress rehearsal the last 9 games of the season. This year the playoffs start early.