[News] UPD: VGK/ANA Dadonov deal voided by the NHL

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Jacks

From what we've heard this seems to be mostly on Ottawa. If they told the Knights and NHL that Dadonov didn't file his paperwork and therefore the NTC is void I'm not sure how Vegas was supposed to know any different. They could have completely read over his contract and it wouldn't have made a difference in that case. It's completely plausible that the issue never came up again after that, the trade to Vegas wasn't disputed in any way so why would anyone bring it up?

Lol, did Vegas not think to double check with the NHL office or with Dadonov himself to make sure? It's not like this is some super secret list. This just smells like Vegas doing damage control and trying to push the blame to another organization for their own eff up.

It's not Ottawa's responsibility to make sure Dadonov is tradeable to a specific team or not after that player is out of their organization. It's on Vegas. It doesn't matter what Ottawa told Vegas. At the end of the day, it's their own fault they didn't check properly.

[Red_Baron]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

He could if he clears waivers.

Which brings up another way the Knights can get around the NTC.

Put Dadonov on waivers, let the Ducks claim him. Then trade the 2nd for Kesler's contract.

I thought that Kesler's contract being traded to the Knights in this would have been only so that it relieves the Ducks from having to pay the actual dollar amount and does not affect the salary cap situation of either team. Sort of a favor for getting the knights out of a jam with the cap.

Is there more to this?

[Weirdness]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

At this point they would have to add a serious sweetener to induce the Ducks to claim him off waivers. But this, unlike a trade, would not be a legal way to circumvent the cap, as it would be similar to a kickback.

Vegas’ entire use of LTIR this year has been a pyramid scheme - trade a player with a bad contract for a player with a bigger contract who is LTIR eligible. Eventually you run out of players with top shelf contracts who you can pass off as injured.

Maybe more got added to the CBA since then, but I do recall a similar thing happening to Todd Marchant back in the 05-06 season. He was supposed to be part of the Sergei Fedorov trade but refused to waive his NTC. He was put on waivers a week later and the Ducks claimed him, completely circumventing his no trade clause.



Difference here is that a trade happened and Columbus received assets for Marchant; albeit in an indirect roundabout way. Vegas could still make a deal but with the deadline passed I would make them pay a king's ransom for claiming a player off waivers for them. Not sure the league would allow such a thing though.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Lol, did Vegas not think to double check with the NHL office or with Dadonov himself to make sure? It's not like this is some super secret list. This just smells like Vegas doing damage control and trying to push the blame to another organization for their own eff up.

It's not Ottawa's responsibility to make sure Dadonov is tradeable to a specific team or not after that player is out of their organization. It's on Vegas. It doesn't matter what Ottawa told Vegas. At the end of the day, it's their own fault they didn't check properly.

According to Friedman's tweet earlier, it seems like the NHL was also misled. From his tweet it seems that Ottawa told NHL and Vegas that the clause expired or wasn't filed. The NHL said "Okay, good trade!". Why should Vegas assume otherwise if the governing body rules that everything is good. The NHL seems to have screwed up by not verifying Ottawa's claims in the trade call in the summer of 2021. Mistakes were made and it may not be Vegas' fault here.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Buff

According to Friedman's tweet earlier, it seems like the NHL was also misled. From his tweet it seems that Ottawa told NHL and Vegas that the clause expired or wasn't filed. The NHL said "Okay, good trade!". Why should Vegas assume otherwise if the governing body rules that everything is good. The NHL seems to have screwed up by not verifying Ottawa's claims in the trade call in the summer of 2021. Mistakes were made and it may not be Vegas' fault here.

But that makes no sense. Dadonov filed that list with the NHL right? How can NHL claim ignorance when they control that list?

At the end of the day, Ottawa can say, huh, guess he did file it. He told us he didn't so we just passed that info to you guys. It's on the NHL and Vegas at this point to double check rather just go by what Ottawa told them lol.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

IMO this is entirely Vegas's responsibility. They should have known/understood the MOU from 2020, they should have read through and completely understood the SPC for the individual they were acquiring from Ottawa and clauses therein, and they shouldn't be pressuring the player to waive AFTER messing up their own cap/contract situation.

That doesn't even bring into account the fact that the proper waiver forms weren't submitted at the time of the trade and now the deadline has passed... (from Seravelli this morning on the Fan).

Why would they ask the player to waive or submit waiver forms if they were in the understanding that the NTC was not in effect.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Lol, did Vegas not think to double check with the NHL office or with Dadonov himself to make sure? It's not like this is some super secret list. This just smells like Vegas doing damage control and trying to push the blame to another organization for their own eff up.

According to reports the initial trade from OTT to VGK was approved by the NHL with the understanding that there was not a valid NTC in effect because that is what OTT told them. Checking in with the NHL wouldn't have made a difference, the evidence of this is that the NHL approved the trade to ANA, they didn't think he had a NTC either.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

It's not Ottawa's responsibility to make sure Dadonov is tradeable to a specific team or not after that player is out of their organization. It's on Vegas. It doesn't matter what Ottawa told Vegas. At the end of the day, it's their own fault they didn't check properly.

It's absolutely on OTT if they gave false information at the time of the first trade. If they reported that the player didn't submit his list on time how is VGK supposed to know different. I suppose they are at fault for not double checking with the player after the trade but the majority of the blame here clearly lies with OTT.

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

But that makes no sense. Dadonov filed that list with the NHL right? How can NHL claim ignorance when they control that list?

No, he did not file with the NHL. Hopefully that process gets fixed as a result of this though.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Buff

According to Friedman's tweet earlier, it seems like the NHL was also misled. From his tweet it seems that Ottawa told NHL and Vegas that the clause expired or wasn't filed. The NHL said "Okay, good trade!". Why should Vegas assume otherwise if the governing body rules that everything is good. The NHL seems to have screwed up by not verifying Ottawa's claims in the trade call in the summer of 2021. Mistakes were made and it may not be Vegas' fault here.

The league rubber stamped the deal, confirming that it didn’t violate any league rules. That doesn’t change the fact that it violated the terms of Dadonov’s contract and must be voided. Otherwise, the precedent in making NTCs worthless will essentially be a declaration of war against the NHLPA.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Buff

According to Friedman's tweet earlier, it seems like the NHL was also misled. From his tweet it seems that Ottawa told NHL and Vegas that the clause expired or wasn't filed. The NHL said "Okay, good trade!". Why should Vegas assume otherwise if the governing body rules that everything is good. The NHL seems to have screwed up by not verifying Ottawa's claims in the trade call in the summer of 2021. Mistakes were made and it may not be Vegas' fault here.

It was a good trade in 2021. Because Vegas was not on the list. A lot depends on the wording of what appears to be a phone call. If Vegas says “Is there an applicable NTC”, Ottawa may have truthfully said “no NTC is in place for this trade” or “NTC is not an issue”. If Ottawa said “there was an NTC but Dadonov didn’t submit a list by the deadline so it expired” then they are liable to Vegas somehow. But I still don’t see how or why the NHL would have been involved in that discussion.

[dino7c]

I like how an amateur website knew the details but Vegas didn't

[Weirdness]

Even if Ottawa messed up and said the NTC didn't apply because of a missed deadline, it's sounding like the League and Vegas just took their word for it. Vegas should have confirmed with all parties, it's your contract now so the due diligence is on you. Saying they were "told" something at the time of the trade last year makes it sound like there was nothing in actual writing confirming that the NTC is now null and void. Sloppy.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

The league rubber stamped the deal, confirming that it didn’t violate any league rules. That doesn’t change the fact that it violated the terms of Dadonov’s contract and must be voided. Otherwise, the precedent in making NTCs worthless will essentially be a declaration of war against the NHLPA.

But the puck has since been dropped since that deal went through, and therefore per hockey rules it’s all forgotten past.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

He could if he clears waivers.

Which brings up another way the Knights can get around the NTC.

Put Dadonov on waivers, let the Ducks claim him. Then trade the 2nd for Kesler's contract.

Unless someone higher up on the waiver priority list, like say Montreal, grabs him instead. Someone that doesn't have a Kesler-ish contract sitting on the LTIR books... which would doubly screw Vegas... which would make me laugh.

The Vegas can trade a first and 2 seconds to Anaheim for Kesler's contract.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

He could if he clears waivers.

Which brings up another way the Knights can get around the NTC.

Put Dadonov on waivers, let the Ducks claim him. Then trade the 2nd for Kesler's contract.

I don't believe he can be sent to the AHL.

In the CBA, it looks like the only players who can be sent to the AHL after the trade deadline are those who were recalled after the deadline (which is why we often see a flurry of paper transactions to the AHL just before the deadline); those who were injured in the NHL while on a recall from the AHL prior to the deadline who have subsequently recovered (I believe this is why the Oilers put Turris on waivers the other day); and injured players on a Conditioning Loan (but his salary still counts against the cap).


I'm not really sure how waivers works after the trade deadline. If he's ineligible to play for the claiming team after the TDL, it would be a jerk move to claim a player off waivers. If he is eligible to play for the claiming team after the TDL, it seems like it would be a big loophole to get around the TDL. Also, if a player isn't eligible to be sent to the AHL, would the league even allow a team to put him on waivers?

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Wouldn't someone else claim him before he got there? Why wouldn't Arizona or Buffalo take him?

I don't think Vegas would really care who claimed him as long as he was no longer on their roster.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by getbak

I don't think Vegas would really care who claimed him as long as he was no longer on their roster.

And they would still be able to trade something to Anaheim to get the LTIR contract or any other LTIR contract from any team that has one. Unless there's something in the rules against that.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Vegas can trade a first and 2 seconds to Anaheim for Kesler's contract.

Kesler's contract has no value at all. The cap relief in this bungled trade was not from adding Kesler, it was from subtracting Dadonov.

It's quite obvious that the Golden Knights have made a colossal mess of this. If anybody still wants to maintain that they are masterminds plotting a foolproof way to circumvent the cap with the league's connivance, I shall now feel free to point and laugh.

Remember Hanlon's Razor: ‘Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.’ Vegas got greedy and stupid and it is now biting them on the arse.

Originally Posted by D as in David

And they would still be able to trade something to Anaheim to get the LTIR contract or any other LTIR contract from any team that has one. Unless there's something in the rules against that.

Again, LTIR contracts have no value. If you add a $7-million player on LTIR, he counts $7 million against your cap, but your cap is temporarily raised by $7 million to acquire a replacement player. The two numbers cancel out.

[powderjunkie]

We really need more clarity on how NTC lists are filed - more specifically who they are filed to.

It wouldn't make much sense if they only went to the teams for exactly this kind of situation...the question seems to be whether the player/agent are supposed to file directly to the league or if the teams are supposed to forward it along...

It would be smart for the NHLPA will be following up to make sure every NTC has been properly filed in advance of the deadline. It isn't really in the team's or league's interest to point out when it hasn't happened. I'm not sure if it's reasonable for the NHL to take a team's word for it if they claim an NTC clause doesn't affect a trade...

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Wouldn't someone else claim him before he got there? Why wouldn't Arizona or Buffalo take him?

I can give you $6.5M reasons why. They want front-loaded contracts, not back-loaded.

[Kipper_3434]

Vegas and their 100m payroll can stay at home and work on their golf game this playoffs. Who cares if the Oilers make it, they are a non-threat and likely easiest out of the 2022 playoffs.

Vegas should be a bottom feeder with their cap situation next season. Good.

[transplant99]

So I dont think this has been posted yet but Friedman was discussing this on his daily hit with Marek.

Apparently, the Knights are asking why central registry allowed the trade to be OK'd originally. Turns out that these NT/NM clauses are NOT filed with central registry and are handled at the team level. That would explain why the league rubber stamped the deal yesterday.

So if nothing else....you can bet your every dollar that will be changed before next season.

Now it truly comes down to if the Sens gave the proper list to the Knights...if they did then this deal will be kiboshed without a second thought. If not....well what a mess and both the Knights and the player end up getting screwed over for different reasons.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

We really need more clarity on how NTC lists are filed - more specifically who they are filed to.

It wouldn't make much sense if they only went to the teams for exactly this kind of situation...the question seems to be whether the player/agent are supposed to file directly to the league or if the teams are supposed to forward it along...

It would be smart for the NHLPA will be following up to make sure every NTC has been properly filed in advance of the deadline. It isn't really in the team's or league's interest to point out when it hasn't happened. I'm not sure if it's reasonable for the NHL to take a team's word for it if they claim an NTC clause doesn't affect a trade...

I was listening to the FAN earlier (think it was Friedman) they said that the lists are submitted to the teams not the NHL. He was saying that might change as a result of this mess.


Edit: ^^ what he said.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I was listening to the FAN earlier (think it was Friedman) they said that the lists are submitted to the teams not the NHL. He was saying that might change as a result of this mess.


Edit: ^^ what he said.

It makes sense the lists would be given to the team - they’re the one who has to use the list. You could add the NHL, but really it would just be to make sure there’s no dispute about who’s on the list later.

I still go back to the list essentially being a part of the player’s contract. Before I buy a contract I want to see everything associated with it. All the riders and amendments. The list should essentially be stapled to it.

So Vegas should not be relying on some oral statement in a phone call (which I bet is subject to interpretation).