Brad Treliving needs to go

[VladtheImpaler]

It is not the lack of success that makes people negative - you are right, most professional sport franchises fail most of the time.
It is the lack of any semblance of a logical plan to have success that makes us negative. Hoping to get lucky is not a plan.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

It is not the lack of success that makes people negative - you are right, most professional sport franchises fail most of the time.
It is the lack of any semblance of a logical plan to have success that makes us negative. Hoping to get lucky is not a plan.

That sounds like something a fake fan would say! Get him! Sew the pom poms to his wrists!

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[Barnet Flame]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

That sounds like something a fake fan would say! Get him! Sew the pom poms to his wrists!

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Paging This post is terrible!

[TheScorpion]

Wrote this today about Tre's need for a clearer vision:

https://flamesnation.ca/2022/01/14/b...st-act-flames/

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

It is not the lack of success that makes people negative - you are right, most professional sport franchises fail most of the time.
It is the lack of any semblance of a logical plan to have success that makes us negative. Hoping to get lucky is not a plan.

So are you saying the lightnings plan was to tank almost every first round pick they have made since 2010 but then make up for it by drafting off the charts good past the first round since 2010? That’s a great plan probably threw the rest of the teams for a loop. Or maybe they had some luck on their side?

[FlamesAddiction]

Bang on, Scorp.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So are you saying the lightnings plan was to tank almost every first round pick they have made since 2010 but then make up for it by drafting off the charts good past the first round since 2010? That’s a great plan probably threw the rest of the teams for a loop. Or maybe they had some luck on their side?

I'd say having a 4th rounder turn into a first line LW is pretty lucky.
Having Tkachuk fall to you is lucky as well.

What did the Flames do with that?

Trade assets for Hamonic. Sign Brouwer. Sign Neal. Sign Coleman.

1st in the West conference?? nah, no need to add anything to put us over the top, can't trade those picks we no longer have since we wasted them on bottom D-men.

How about hiring 2 absolutely awful coaches in GG and Ward? Tanking your highest ever draft picks value so you get nothing in return and watch him turn into a very useful player who would likely be our #2 C here right now.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by chedder

Our chances of winning the cup with this group and any addition are somewhere between very slim and none. If Johnny's walking trade him at the deadline for a 1st and some prospects and let the rebuild begin.

Edit. And fire Treliving.

Alright. Yes, if there really is no shot, sell, sell, sell now with the assets we have.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

So are you saying the lightnings plan was to tank almost every first round pick they have made since 2010 but then make up for it by drafting off the charts good past the first round since 2010? That’s a great plan probably threw the rest of the teams for a loop. Or maybe they had some luck on their side?

WTF does the Lightning situation have to do with it?
I dont care what they did. I want the local heroes to show that they are capable of showing some strategic vision.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I'd say having a 4th rounder turn into a first line LW is pretty lucky.
Having Tkachuk fall to you is lucky as well.

What did the Flames do with that?

Trade assets for Hamonic. Sign Brouwer. Sign Neal. Sign Coleman.

1st in the West conference?? nah, no need to add anything to put us over the top, can't trade those picks we no longer have since we wasted them on bottom D-men.

How about hiring 2 absolutely awful coaches in GG and Ward? Tanking your highest ever draft picks value so you get nothing in return and watch him turn into a very useful player who would likely be our #2 C here right now.

Gaudreau was already in the nhl when treliving came here

Tkachuk was lucky for sure

Most treliving mistakes that you listed happened early on when he first was hired other than Coleman signing. Still early to chalk that up as bad.

Last off season I was posting this team needs a retool. Still ok with it and actually prefer it but this team also had addressed some major issues and has got positive results for Stockton and so far this season for some young unproven players that it’s a bit early for everyone to be getting this negative

I also think it’s a bit arrogant to think my opinion of a retool as best course of action is the only way to go. It’s possible to make strides forward without blowing it up as some of the major issues holding back this team are slowly getting resolved or already have been. If tre can figure out the Gaudreau situation this team really has no 35 plus players that are key contributors. Our biggest anchor contracts are monahan and lucic and they might actually be movable for a reasonable cost as they only have 1 year left and Stockton is one if the best teams led by young players. It’s a bit early to be calling for treliving head now when this team is still off to a good start

[VilleN]

We need to all in IMO. We aren’t rebuilding. Trade picks/prospects to bring in a guy like Hertl … the rebuild will come soon enough, but for now - get all the scoring help you can.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by Barnet Flame

Paging This post is terrible!

Paging an original thought!

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[sa226]

For better or worse Lewis, Richardson et al were just Sutter versions of Simon, Leivo et al. Zadorov and Gundbradson were just trying to fill the absence of Gio while also not trying to throw a really young defense corps to the wolves.

Its the top salary guys that will always make a difference. I hate to say it because he's been piled on plenty, but Monahan not living up to his salary is really hurting the what this group could actually be. If you think historically what pairs and lines have worked well erase the recent performances that we've seen, and consider this.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Coleman

Dube-Backlund-Tkackuk

Lucic-Lindholm-Mangiapane

Lewis-Richardson-Pitlick

Now, i'm not here to have my lineups torn apart, but that looks like a pretty nice balanced lineup would'nt you say?

But then, you tell me, well Monahan is no longer a top six player, Backlund looks like he's skating in mud right beside Monahan, Dube has been a dissapointment since it looked like he took a big step in the Winnipeg series and the defense is missing reliable puck movers and offense generators.

The value contracts, salary disbursement and young players playing roles are all there for a really good team. But when we step back into this reality that we are currently witnessing, what we thought we had, just flat out isn't there.

Short of tearing it down, I don't know what you do.

If I could make a prediction it would be that they ride out the Sutter contract and throw everything they have at making this team a contender, then completely tear it down into a full rebuild. There will be nothing left for a retool, it will be a full rebuild.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Wrote this today about Tre's need for a clearer vision:

https://flamesnation.ca/2022/01/14/b...st-act-flames/

Great article, Scorp. I could not have said it any better.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't think its about being right. It's about wanting something good. For a couple of years, some have been saying that this team doesn't have what it takes and needs change. Other fans step in and tell them they're too negative or they don't know what they're talking about and be passive aggressive towards them.

Wanting your favourite team to make changes doesn't make you less of a fan. When other fans question why you're even a fan it's not cool. It's like saying you're only a "real fan" if you drink the koolaid and say everything is great and whatever the team does is good. What you bring to the table is a different opinion. It's not that you dont' have hope, it's just that you hope for different things. I hope the team realizes that the players they've assembled aren't good enough to compete and I hope they make some changes because at least we get some sort of change.

There is a lot of real estate between drinking the koolaid and taking a delicious satisfaction in predicting the absolute worst case scenario in pretty much any topic that surrounds the team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by redmile04

You just love criticizing those who accept reality? I don't see the point with that and what that brings to the table.

They have passed the first round twice in 30+ years, give it a break with your false optimism.

He can be a fan and be realistic and not delusional. Theres actually nothing wrong that just because you dont think he should be a fan, doesnt mean he cant be a fan in his own way.

This is a weak franchise, thats a fact, not an opinion. We can still be fans, for whatever reason, local, were a fan before, etc.

No I jump on those that come in with comments like drink the koolaid or delusional to anyone that's not as pessimistic as you are.

I personally don't think a pessimistic nor an optimistic person gets to decide what realistic is. You don't own that.

Nor do we all see things the same way. I don't carry the entire Flames history around on my back like some kind of an anvil. It's year to year, with the GM and coach they have, the players on their roster, the prospects in their system and the picks at their disposal.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

They certainly aren’t a thing for Treliving.

Division Rival Vegas added an elite #1 centre just this season though…so it still happens, just not here, and not with this GM.

I definitely think you’re right though - Flames fans hoping for a mid-season move to help the team? Get prepared for disappointment, unless Treliving has his back up against the wall and tries to save his job.

Complete failure to allow a divisional rival to get Eichel especially for the package he returned, it was clear he was going somewhere in the division and Treliving should have prevented it with an overpay but he sewered this teams chances of getting out of this division for years.

And before the pundits chime in with the "but Adams wanted Krebs badly" I call BS, there is no metric where Krebs is all that good, we could have beaten that package with ease. I hope Vegas wins the cup so we can get rid of Brad (take no chances) Treliving.

He needs to join his Dad on Dragons Den.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Complete failure to allow a divisional rival to get Eichel especially for the package he returned, it was clear he was going somewhere in the division and Treliving should have prevented it with an overpay but he sewered this teams chances of getting out of this division for years.

And before the pundits chime in with the "but Adams wanted Krebs badly" I call BS, there is no metric where Krebs is all that good, we could have beaten that package with ease. I hope Vegas wins the cup so we can get rid of Brad (take no chances) Treliving.

He needs to join his Dad on Dragons Den.

But he DID want Krebs badly.
And Tuch
You can choose to ignore it or be cranky when people point that out, but there's truth to it.

On what basis should we have "beaten that package with ease". What package?
If easy why didn't anyone else beat it?
Like the Ducks.
Or the Kings.
Or the Rangers.

Why?

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by Bingo

No I jump on those that come in with comments like drink the koolaid or delusional to anyone that's not as pessimistic as you are.

I personally don't think a pessimistic nor an optimistic person gets to decide what realistic is. You don't own that.

Nor do we all see things the same way. I don't carry the entire Flames history around on my back like some kind of an anvil. It's year to year, with the GM and coach they have, the players on their roster, the prospects in their system and the picks at their disposal.

You say pessimistic , I say realistic.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Complete failure to allow a divisional rival to get Eichel especially for the package he returned, it was clear he was going somewhere in the division and Treliving should have prevented it with an overpay but he sewered this teams chances of getting out of this division for years.

And before the pundits chime in with the "but Adams wanted Krebs badly" I call BS, there is no metric where Krebs is all that good, we could have beaten that package with ease. I hope Vegas wins the cup so we can get rid of Brad (take no chances) Treliving.

He needs to join his Dad on Dragons Den.

Show your work, please. What package would (a) clearly be more acceptable to Buffalo and (b) not gut the Flames so badly they just repeat what Buffalo did with Eichel.