unethical business experience *LONG READ*

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Man, the place I'm eating at is about to get absoutely TRASHED by my google review... who does a 2 for 1 drink special and brings both drinks out at once? My second pina colada is going to be totally melted by the time I'm done with the first one. ONE STAR.

... In seriousness this has been a pretty fun thread thanks to Sliver.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Are ethics involved when stupidity enters the equation? Should common sense not enter into the mix? Who the #### buys a used hot tub and doesn’t think there is potential for nothing but problems? Maybe look in the mirror before expecting someone else to solve your problem. This is like buying a used car from Farmer Jonez, and complaining it’s a heap of ####. Pay pennies on the dollar and expect pennies on the dollar service and support. You get what you pay for.

Even if I agreed with your really bad take, which I obviously don’t. Doesn’t that make a poor rating all that more deserving and necessary? I suppose in this scenario of yours you’d give Farmer Jonez a five star rating?
Also, what problem is FG asking anyone to solve for him?

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Sliver

That's pretty neat that everything google does when it comes to ratings you are supportive of. They really nailed it for you, huh? Fair for customers, and in spite of every single business owner seeing the inequity in the system - you know, the people who are negatively affected by the system with clearly articulated reasons why - you just happen to know google got it right and business owners are just wrong.

Justifiable complaints? Not on your watch!

Sorry, I apparently missed the bolded in my previous response.

Justifiable complaints? You are selling them as universally needed so in the sense you mean it, I don’t think you have justifiable complaints. In my opinion, what you do have are some strong opinions on how the world should change to suit you personally. You are selling things as undeniable facts, but they are just your own personal opinions.

From the sole perspective of your own business, you have some valid complaints. However, that’s never been the discussion because you seem to think a valid gear-grinder for your business means it’s a horrible travesty that MUST change for all small businesses. That’s a much different ball of yarn.

Even if there are valid complaints, it doesn’t logically mean ANY solution that fixes them exists or must be done. I don’t prescribe to your whole idea of there needing to be big changes. However, I judge everything on its own merits, which is why I thanked your post about removing or aggregating old ratings days ago. But even then, I see valid arguments for keeping old ratings and valid arguments for dropping them.

If you want to further debate the actual topic, I’ll wait for your valid argument why I’m wrong in post #284.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Stampede2TheCup

Sorry, I apparently missed the bolded in my previous response.

Justifiable complaints? You are selling them as universally needed so in the sense you mean it, I don’t think you have justifiable complaints. In my opinion, what you do have are some strong opinions on how the world should change to suit you personally. You are selling things as undeniable facts, but they are just your own personal opinions.

From the sole perspective of your own business, you have some valid complaints. However, that’s never been the discussion because you seem to think a valid gear-grinder for your business means it’s a horrible travesty that MUST change for all small businesses. That’s a much different ball of yarn.

Even if there are valid complaints, it doesn’t logically mean ANY solution that fixes them exists or must be done. I don’t prescribe to your whole idea of there needing to be big changes. However, I judge everything on its own merits, which is why I thanked your post about removing or aggregating old ratings days ago. But even then, I see valid arguments for keeping old ratings and valid arguments for dropping them.

If you want to further debate the actual topic, I’ll wait for your valid argument why I’m wrong in post #284.

lol I've written a fataing novel in this thread. I honestly have no more to say.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol I've written a fataing novel in this thread. I honestly have no more to say.

Just say what you mean: anyone who doesn't own their own business is a ####ing loser pleb who doesn't deserve to review other businesses.

-another business owner who thinks you're a moron on this count. Others I'm ok with but this is a stupid thread and a dumb hill to die on, Custer.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol I've written a fataing novel in this thread. I honestly have no more to say.

None of what you’ve previously said addresses my argument in post 284. I’ll take this as a clear sign you can’t address it. Like I’ve said, you are more than entitled to your own point of views. However, you’ve been stating things as so much more than that, to a degree which seems extreme. Extreme points of view are hard to defend, so I don’t blame you for tapping out. You can just store up your remaining anger about this one to let it all spill out in the next “Sliver thread”.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Just say what you mean: anyone who doesn't own their own business is a ####ing loser pleb who doesn't deserve to review other businesses.

-another business owner who thinks you're a moron on this count. Others I'm ok with but this is a stupid thread and a dumb hill to die on, Custer.

I think you just perfectly summed up what he’s notorious for.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Stampede2TheCup

None of what you’ve previously said addresses my argument in post 284. I’ll take this as a clear sign you can’t address it. Like I’ve said, you are more than entitled to your own point of views. However, you’ve been stating things as so much more than that, to a degree which seems extreme. Extreme points of view are hard to defend, so I don’t blame you for tapping out. You can just store up your remaining anger about this one to let it all spill out in the next “Sliver thread”.

A classic “you can’t quit this argument, you’re fired from this argument! I declare myself the winner!” post.

Been there man. The secret is to only be invested as the other person. Otherwise you end up posting cringe.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Just say what you mean: anyone who doesn't own their own business is a ####ing loser pleb who doesn't deserve to review other businesses.

-another business owner who thinks you're a moron on this count. Others I'm ok with but this is a stupid thread and a dumb hill to die on, Custer.

The way you write, I highly doubt you're a business owner.

Does it make you feel good inside calling someone a moron on the internet? Would you say that to sliver's face? I bet you wouldn't.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Just say what you mean: anyone who doesn't own their own business is a ####ing loser pleb who doesn't deserve to review other businesses.

-another business owner who thinks you're a moron on this count. Others I'm ok with but this is a stupid thread and a dumb hill to die on, Custer.

That's how you interpret what I've said? What?! Are you joking around? That's just so...weird. I don't think - for one second - you could support that claim with anything I've said, particularly in light of the context of my larger position.

I would like you to take this back. You take this back this instance.

Or else am I misreading your post? Maybe you could clarify for me. Are you seriously saying you think that I think you're a loser/beneath me if you don't own a business? Are you new here? There's no way I've ever even thought such a preposterous thought. Of course I don't think business owners are on some level above other people. That's fataing absurd.

I'm flabbergasted. This is the most flabbergasted I've ever been. I don't think I really understood what flabbergasted meant before just now. I've certainly never experienced it at such a high level.

I guess, congratulations. I know I have a reputation on here for inflammatory remarks, but you have absolutely bested me here to the point where my jaw is on the floor.

What a thing to say. I can't even imagine.

Anyway, I'm going to take a second. This is just something else. Who is this guy? What a weird, weird post.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Just say what you mean: anyone who doesn't own their own business is a ####ing loser pleb who doesn't deserve to review other businesses.

-another business owner who thinks you're a moron on this count. Others I'm ok with but this is a stupid thread and a dumb hill to die on, Custer.

I don’t think that’s what he is getting at. It’s unfair that any random person can sewer your business due to a rather powerful rating system that doesn’t have checks or balances.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

I don’t think that’s what he is getting at. It’s unfair that any random person can sewer your business due to a rather powerful rating system that doesn’t have checks or balances.

They are crowd sourced customer ratings. Google doesn't represent them as anything more or less than that. Sliver doesn't like them because he can't control them, and likes to have control over everything in his business and his life. One bad Google review isn't normally going to sewer a business, especially when it is handled with grace.

[Sliver]

I feel like I'm being psychoanalysed by a couple of cavemen. How can you guys be so egregiously wrong in how you understand a person with a body of work on here as large as mine? It defies all odds. Like, you're so far off I'm embarrassed for you. For real.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I feel like I'm being psychoanalysed by a couple of cavemen. How can you guys be so egregiously wrong in how you understand a person with a body of work on here as large as mine? It defies all odds. Like, you're so far off I'm embarrassed for you. For real.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

They are crowd sourced customer ratings. Google doesn't represent them as anything more or less than that. Sliver doesn't like them because he can't control them, and likes to have control over everything in his business and his life. One bad Google review isn't normally going to sewer a business, especially when it is handled with grace.

Business owners don’t like them because you can’t control the crowd. In every crowd their are people who are unstable, vindictive and just won’t give 5 stars on principle, because “nobody’s perfect “. And yet here we are, people who look at the reviews, and that’s all they see , a 4.2 because some ####### doesn’t realize cutting into A known asbestos contaminated piece of drywall might delay their project.

[Stampede2TheCup]

<whoops post>

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I feel like I'm being psychoanalysed by a couple of cavemen. How can you guys be so egregiously wrong in how you understand a person with a body of work on here as large as mine? It defies all odds. Like, you're so far off I'm embarrassed for you. For real.

I claim no psychology skills. I've run across a handful of people in my life that would say very similar things to everything you write here. Just for fun, this is what they all had in common. They all some level of OCD where everything in their house and life had to be 100% organized and perfectly in place. They all claimed to work extremely hard and extremely long hours, but were more likely slightly above average in that regard. None of them could take even a hint of criticism, no matter how constructive or well intentioned. They were all somewhat successful people, but they had a ceiling because they couldn't learn from mistakes or constructive criticism and had to lash out at others or the system. Maybe I'm off on you, and if that's not you, I'd apologize. Although none of those people I am thinking about would think it matched them either.

On the other side of this argument, I have no affinity Google. I have spent most of my career working for an organization accused of all sorts of conspiracies and evil motives. I have also known some of the policy makers well enough over time to know they are all trying their best to do a complicated job and to do the right things for the right reasons and there really is nothing to these accusations.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I claim no psychology skills. I've run across a handful of people in my life that would say very similar things to everything you write here. Just for fun, this is what they all had in common. They all some level of OCD where everything in their house and life had to be 100% organized and perfectly in place. They all claimed to work extremely hard and extremely long hours, but were more likely slightly above average in that regard. None of them could take even a hint of criticism, no matter how constructive or well intentioned. They were all somewhat successful people, but they had a ceiling because they couldn't learn from mistakes or constructive criticism and had to lash out at others or the system. Maybe I'm off on you, and if that's not you, I'd apologize. Although none of those people I am thinking about would think it matched them either.

On the other side of this argument, I have no affinity Google. I have spent most of my career working for an organization accused of all sorts of conspiracies and evil motives. I have also known some of the policy makers well enough over time to know they are all trying their best to do a complicated job and to do the right things for the right reasons and there really is nothing to these accusations.

Still going, eh?

lol, so confidently incorrect. I love how you see yourself, though. Ya got it all figured out.

Good job, tiger.

[Stampede2TheCup]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Still going, eh?

lol, so confidently incorrect. I love how you see yourself, though. Ya got it all figured out.

Good job, tiger.

Was I the other caveman?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Do you believe some businesses deserve five stars if they're to be rated at all?

I do. And I don't give five stars unless five stars is warranted.

But I don't give less. If I get less-than service, I don't rate the business at all. It's literally the golden rule, so it's not like some off-the-wall thing I've come up with.

And the business has all the power?! OMG, what?! Every customer is my boss. Like, if we don't give you want you want, you're not going to pay me. You're out nothing until you're satisfied, but I'm paying materials, labour and overhead up front just to be ready and waiting for you should you decide to do business with me.

So if you believe all businesses should have perfect 5 star ratings, then what’s the point of ratings? You obviously think they’re useless and not of any value, so why do you participate in perpetuating an obviously broken system that in no way, shape or form is meant to accurately reflect the quality of the business?

I think YouTube shares your opinion because they recently removed all dislikes and only allow likes. It makes a mockery of the ratings, exposes people to scams, misinformation and generally bad content.

This recent post on r/videos sums it up nicely:

Spoiler!

The existing system may have some issues but your system only makes it worse.