[News] Coyotes on the Verge of Being Locked Out

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Although it's not a level playing field because there are way more hockey fans in Quebec City than there are in probably all those above-named cities combined.

I think two factors you should consider are the number of hockey fans in the market and the fact that the Canadian TV deal is still more than the US deal(s) -- and also the next one up for expiration. Having another Canadian market helps this.

This report from 10 years ago talks a bit about it. Some factors have changed in the last decade but a lot of the points remain true:

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/re...re-for-policy-

Number of hockey fans in a market is going to matter again.

Take a look at local TV ratings:
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co.../NHL-RSNs.aspx

Keeping Arizona as the example, they have a population of 10 million or so in their viewing area. I've read 2 million people subscriber to their Bally network as of a few years ago.

They charge about $3-4 in carriage fess to the 2 million subscribers, which is about $100 million in potential local annual TV revenue and probably worth about 50 million for a local TV contract, which is a huge chunk of the Coyote revenue.

Well, the problem is from the above ratings, they have an average of a .36 rating, which is about .36% of their households, which I guess is in the 7000-12,000 average viewer range.

Cord cutting is making that $100 million/year in revenue for their RSN drop at about an annual rate of 10% or so and local TV will almost be worthless to a giant market of people who don't watch the Coyotes games.

There's no way to meaningfully monetize 12,000 people watching their games through streaming.

[GioforPM]

Does the addition of Quebec City really help a Canadian tv deal though? What was Canadian viewership before, during and after the Nordiques?

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

These American cities all have greater economic outputs than Quebec city:
Greenville
Harrisburg
Durham
Columbia
Allentown
Dayton
Knoxville
Des Moines
Albuquerque
Syracuse
Little Rock
Greensboro
Tucson
Madison
Worcester
Fresno
Bakersfield

And hundreds more. You get my point.
Houston's GDP is over 15 times that of Quebec City's.

Go Isotopes

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

When the entity you're paying taxes to is also the landlord that is kicking you out of your home, the equation probably changes a little.

There is no equation where not paying taxes = good idea.

Even less so when you're trying to get a neighboring local government to give you a sweetheart arena deal.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There is no equation where not paying taxes = good idea.

Oh, it never is a good idea. But when you're dealing with people who have publicly announced their intention to screw you over and wreck your business, you're more likely to entertain the thought of cutting off your own nose to spite their faces.

[Eric Vail]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

If it wasn't for Bettman you wouldn't have a team to cheer for here, so there's that.

The Flames were in Calgary before he was there. He doesn't get credit for them. He does get credit for Canadian teams leaving Canada, though.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by gunnner

Go Isotopes

Iceotopes.

I’ll see myself out.

[djsFlames]

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

The Flames were in Calgary before he was there. He doesn't get credit for them. He does get credit for Canadian teams leaving Canada, though.

He gets credit for them staying. All the small-market Canadian teams would have folded or relocated long ago if not for the salary cap.

Bettman had nothing whatever to do with the Winnipeg and Quebec teams leaving Canada. He was powerless to stop them, because absolutely no one wanted to own an NHL team in those cities at that time. And that was because they had old arenas (which he had no power to replace), weak economies (which he had no power to strengthen), and small populations (which he had no power to increase), at a time when player salaries were rapidly increasing (which started before he had anything to do with the NHL, and continued until he could persuade the owners and PA to accept a salary cap). The only thing he had to do with those relocations is that he was commissioner at the time they happened.

I bet you think Justin Trudeau is personally to blame for COVID because it happened while he was in power.

[Jordan!]

So the Coyotes paid some bills but not all of them. At this point they owe it to the fans to explain wtf they're trying to accomplish.

Or announce the Tempe arena is happening and a backup facility plan is finalized.

I'm pretty much just disgusted with the Coyotes right now, this really is it for me until they finalize the next chapter. This has an effect on the fans with their business practices and it's bull#$%

[The Fisher Account]

Love that 20 year later, Canadians are still incorrectly blaming big bad Bettman for the Jets and Nords leaving.

[timun]

That's why, as much as it's an unpopular opinion to have, I think Gary Bettman is fantastic at his job. He gets crapped on by hockey fans everywhere for every perceived problem the NHL had had in the last 30 years, and that's precisely what he's paid handsomely to do.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

The Flames were in Calgary before he was there. He doesn't get credit for them. He does get credit for Canadian teams leaving Canada, though.

They were going to leave, same in Edmonton, and he had a big part in preventing it and shoring up the Canadian teams.

And Quebec and Winnipeg failed on their own (not to mention if you give him credit for Winnipeg losing a team do you give him credit for them getting one?) He was also Commissioner for all of two years when the Nords left (and that was such a bad move for that franchise, right) and three years when the Jets moved.

[sureLoss]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1469362834433785862

https://twitter.com/user/status/1469363162185342981

https://twitter.com/user/status/1469363361498505217

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They were going to leave, same in Edmonton, and he had a big part in preventing it and shoring up the Canadian teams.

And Quebec and Winnipeg failed on their own (not to mention if you give him credit for Winnipeg losing a team do you give him credit for them getting one?) He was also Commissioner for all of two years when the Nords left (and that was such a bad move for that franchise, right) and three years when the Jets moved.

How many Flames and Oiler fans remember the scratcher lotto tickets that contributed to helping both teams stay in Alberta?

*waves hand*

There is this false alternate reality in Canada that all is good because Hockey is such a large part of the culture.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

How many Flames and Oiler fans remember the scratcher lotto tickets that contributed to helping both teams stay in Alberta?

*waves hand*

There is this false alternate reality in Canada that all is good because Hockey is such a large part of the culture.

"Save our Flames".

Also false alternative reality from around that time was that Harley H. was looking for government help on arena refurbishment and other consideration as much as Murray E ever did. He was just as sharp a businessman.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They were going to leave, same in Edmonton, and he had a big part in preventing it and shoring up the Canadian teams.

And Quebec and Winnipeg failed on their own (not to mention if you give him credit for Winnipeg losing a team do you give him credit for them getting one?) He was also Commissioner for all of two years when the Nords left (and that was such a bad move for that franchise, right) and three years when the Jets moved.

Which in hindsight was pretty astute, as the Canadian teams are some of the largest Revenue producers in the League.

Love Bettman or hate him it would be a difficult assertion to maintain that he hasnt done wonders for the NHL and hockey in general throughout his tenure.

The league is financially healthy, its expanding, it maintains a pool of healthy, stable franchises, it has even thus far successfully navigated a Pandemic.

I'd say the head-scratcher throughout has been the Coyotes. He seems to have a hard-on for Arizona that I find inexplicable. Then again though, rarely would I classify Bettman as a man without a plan so I'm inclined to believe that there would be some reasoning behind these decisions.

Also he looks like The Count from Sesame Street, so he's got that going for him, which is nice.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Locke

Which in hindsight was pretty astute, as the Canadian teams are some of the largest Revenue producers in the League.

Love Bettman or hate him it would be a difficult assertion to maintain that he hasnt done wonders for the NHL and hockey in general throughout his tenure.

The league is financially healthy, its expanding, it maintains a pool of healthy, stable franchises, it has even thus far successfully navigated a Pandemic.

I'd say the head-scratcher throughout has been the Coyotes. He seems to have a hard-on for Arizona that I find inexplicable. Then again though, rarely would I classify Bettman as a man without a plan so I'm inclined to believe that there would be some reasoning behind these decisions.

Also he looks like The Count from Sesame Street, so he's got that going for him, which is nice.

A couple things I think have gone into AZ. First, he didn't like or want Balsillies attempt to move to a restricted area. Second, he wanted to preserve expansion versus sale. Third, there's some sunk NHL cost in AZ that I bet he wants to extract somehow.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Jordan!

How many Flames and Oiler fans remember the scratcher lotto tickets that contributed to helping both teams stay in Alberta?

*waves hand*

There is this false alternate reality in Canada that all is good because Hockey is such a large part of the culture.

There were a lot of factors working against Canadian hockey teams during that period. The Canadian dollar was terrible. The Canadian teams were kind of completely screwed by the TV situation at the time. Saturday night games had great ratings, but rights were held by a government owned channel that wasn't really allowing competition to bid against them. And the Canadian teams dumbly agreed to split their Canadian national revenue with American teams in some hope of a huge windfall of a big national US deal that wasn't ever really a reality. I think the Canadian national TV contract has always been significantly higher per Canadian team than the US contract per US team. They also weren't very good at monetizing local Canadian deals yet. There were a lot of American teams that got sweet stadium deals, and were also willing to lose lots of money in making splashy player acquisitions.

A lot of those factors are constantly changing, and there was a time that a big market with few hockey fans was a much better market than a small market filled with hockey fans. But that landscape is definitely tilting in favor of the latter right now and will continue to do so when the RSN bubble finally pops.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A couple things I think have gone into AZ. First, he didn't like or want Balsillies attempt to move to a restricted area. Second, he wanted to preserve expansion versus sale. Third, there's some sunk NHL cost in AZ that I bet he wants to extract somehow.

I'd agree with most of that, but I just feel there has to be something more. Something underlying and fundamental about why he wants Arizona to work so badly.

Something like legislation coming down the pipe that we dont know about that would be advantageous, just something external that would make a big difference.

Because while Balsillie was silly and Hamilton wouldnt work it also appears that Bettman and BoG have done a pretty poor job of vetting owners for Arizona.

Something just feels off about that Franchise. Even the Florida teams eventually have gotten their poop in a group. FLORIDA!

I remember several years ago thinking that a pro sports team, much less an NHL team, in Las Vegas was the drug-addled brainchild result of a 'Fear and Loathing-esque' bender and yet here we are.

They're there, they've got a nice stadium, solid fan base and been delivering excellent results both on the ice and financially. Who would have guessed that 10 years ago?

Even when the team on the Ice is playing well the Franchise is still like one of those inflatable clowns with the weight on the bottom that keeps coming back every time you punch it in the face.

And yet through it all the constants have always been Death, Taxes, Edmonton is no Good and Arizona remains an inexplicable hot, sticky, sweaty mess.