Valimaki: ‘Stupid’ that he’s sitting

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

Sutter is obviously doing a great job as head coach. That doesn't mean we have to agree with every decision he makes. Valimaki can be better but Zadorov clearly has some serious faults, aside from which he is being paid 3.5m and is heading to free agency.

Regardless of whether Darryl is making the right decision for the roster right now, sitting out a 21-year-old 1st round dman who has #1 upside and missed 2 prime development years due to injury is not good for his development or the long-term best interests of the club.

Sutter’s job is to win games not pander to fan boards.

He’s doing his job.

W’s

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Didn't we already have a pretty long discussion earlier in the thread about how absolute s$%t this opinion is?

Sutter makes mistakes just like any of us. As fans on a message board, what are we here for if not to discuss things like this?

The team is the No 1 team in the Western Conference and one of the best defensive teams in the league. Ya he’s making a “mistake” with his defensive roster management.

I wish we all made mistakes like that

[Bongsong]

Why hasn't Valimaki been waved of he is in fact exempt

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bongsong

Why hasn't Valimaki been waved of he is in fact exempt

Because Sutter and Treliving want him on the Flames practicing with the big boys and ready to sub in.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by boogerz

The only thing wrong here is your claim that playing low-potential fodder like Zadorov in the NHL or Poolman in the AHL isn't blocking opportunities from guys that have the potential to being more than replacement-level defensemen.

Development is gained by playing and Valimaki isn't learning anything or getting to apply new knowledge by sitting on the bench right now. The Flames are going to feel stupid when Zadorov isn't on the team next year, but Valimaki didn't develop as much as he could have (or at all) because he was sitting on the bench getting "tough love".

Same for the kids down in Stockton like Solovyov who went from averaging 20 minutes a game in the KHL playoffs as a #4 dman to barely playing as the Heat's #7 dman behind Poolman and bunch of veteran AHL/NHL tweeners.

I get that you think Valimaki should be playing. And I don't disagree - he should be in Stockton, getting lots of ice-time.

But in an attempt to make your point, or to point blame, you developed a narrative that the Flames have a bunch of mediocre vets blocking the path of young guys. It isn't true. The Flames are deep defensively, and they are trying to win hockey games. You have not shown that they have more mediocre vets than other teams, and I very much doubt that you can.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Sutter’s job is to win games not pander to fan boards.

He’s doing his job.

W’s

What about my post prompted this response? Who's asking Sutter to pander? I don't expect him to know or care about my opinion as a fan. I think what I've set out is pretty reasonable and rational. Darryl has his reasons for playing Zadorov and the team is winning - not as much as when Valimaki has been in the line-up but playing well aa a team nonetheless. He hasn’t had a great start to the season but Valimaki has more to offer than Zadorov. In the meantime, I see little benefit in Valimaki sitting in the press box. There's a reason teams don't typically keep 8 d on the roster. That part's not on Sutter. Something has to give.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

He hasn’t had a great start to the season but Valimaki has more to offer than Zadorov. In the meantime, I see little benefit in Valimaki sitting in the press box. There's a reason teams don't typically keep 8 d on the roster. That part's not on Sutter. Something has to give.

Perhaps in future yes, but having Darryl as coach means we're in win-now mode, and Valimaki's not been making a great case for himself when he does get in. I'd play Zadorov over him too right now as he is better defensively overall.

Darryl needs all 8 defencemen at some point during the season anyway, he won like that in LA.

[Fan in Exile]

Thanks for sharing the stats comparison (although they are not all the same metrics). It makes a strong case for Z staying in. I still think Valimaki has more potential to impact the team positively but more than that he needs to play. If he doesn't need to clear waivers and Darryl is going to play Zadorov, I'd at least like to see him play and get his mojo back in the AHL. I don't get the advantage of having 8 dmen up with the roster if you only intend to play 6 of them. Call him up if and when you need him.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Didn't we already have a pretty long discussion earlier in the thread about how absolute s$%t this opinion is?

Sutter makes mistakes just like any of us. As fans on a message board, what are we here for if not to discuss things like this?

nah, it usually is a #### opinion, but in this case the people who want Valimaki are specifically disagreeing with Darryl on the biggest thing he came in and improved so obviously this season: team defensive awareness. So it's absolutely valid to bring up that complaining that Vali isn't getting ice time is really just saying that you don't trust Darryl's player evaluation. That is very stupid.

[CSharp]

Zadorov isn't playing all that bad - he's a big body and has shown some offensive rushes to the net. I've seen some instances where he's totally lost in the defensive zones but overall, not bad. So, if Valimaki wants to replace Zadorov when given the opportunity, he'll need to up his game and show that he belongs in the big leagues. Kylington showed up big time this year. So, it's time to show up or shut up.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

nah, it usually is a #### opinion, but in this case the people who want Valimaki are specifically disagreeing with Darryl on the biggest thing he came in and improved so obviously this season: team defensive awareness. So it's absolutely valid to bring up that complaining that Vali isn't getting ice time is really just saying that you don't trust Darryl's player evaluation. That is very stupid.

Yes, calls to authority aren’t invalid per se. Especially where the authority is proven in the area of expertise (in this case player deployment). No one is saying Sutter is infallible. They are saying he’s in a better position to judge, has proven experience and success and his opinion weighs more.

My doctor may have missed a diagnosis in his day. But he’s still an excellent doctor and I trust that his opinion is better than a guy on the barstool.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Hanna Sniper

The team is the No 1 team in the Western Conference and one of the best defensive teams in the league. Ya he’s making a “mistake” with his defensive roster management.

I wish we all made mistakes like that

Tough to argue with results and also in a weird way this could be a good thing for Valimaki- to really emphasize the expectations the organization has of him knowing he has the potential to emerge as a Kylington 2.0 or better.

[BigFlameDog]

Said it before but I will repeat. I have zero concerns with how Sutter is handling Valimaki. He will turn him into a stud or we will find out he is meh. He needs to just keep working hard on whatever they are telling him to work on and step up when he has his chance. He will mature and run with it or he will wilt.

[Vinny01]

Staring to sound like he will eventually end up in the AHL. Makes sense right now

That or swap him for a similar type player at forward. Kratsov?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

What about my post prompted this response? Who's asking Sutter to pander? I don't expect him to know or care about my opinion as a fan. I think what I've set out is pretty reasonable and rational. Darryl has his reasons for playing Zadorov and the team is winning - not as much as when Valimaki has been in the line-up but playing well aa a team nonetheless. He hasn’t had a great start to the season but Valimaki has more to offer than Zadorov. In the meantime, I see little benefit in Valimaki sitting in the press box. There's a reason teams don't typically keep 8 d on the roster. That part's not on Sutter. Something has to give.

I think they are carrying 8 because someone was going to Buffalo if we got Eichel. Now they have a problem until someone gets hurt. Which will happen.

I wasn’t attacking you. Just trying to point out Valimaki isn’t playing because the coaches think Zadorov is better. He brings a physical presence It’s something the Flames have needed for a long time. Gudbranson does as well. Valimaki doesn’t.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I don't like players who complain about ice time, he's essentially saying he doesn't trust the coach.

I was listening to a Kings insider on the radio this morning and they were talking about Sutter and the way he runs his team. Essentially it's Darryl gives you a role, you either accept it or you don't play.

To me this sounds like Valimaki not accepting the role he was given, and so he simply won't play until he does. Contrast that with a guy like Monahan who has embraced his new role and is finding success in a limited capacity.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think it is about Valimaki not accepting his role. Yes, Sutter assigns roles and demands buy-in for each role. I don't think Valimaki is going to argue here.


Sutter simply doesn't care who you are. He will adjust the roster to give the Calgary Flames the best chance to win. Period.


He is not shy about it. Conroy and Iginla stinking it up in a game? He will yell from the other end of the bench "You two princesses aren't feeling well? That's ok, just take it easy the rest of the game and enjoy your front row seats."


I thought Sutter didn't like Kylington, and played Stone over him. Guess what? Last season Stone was better than Kylington. This season, Kylington has been better than most, and he hasn't missed a game.


Valimaki not happy with sitting? Good. Work harder, and be better in the next chance you get. With Sutter, you have a coach that doesn't play favourites. He isn't shy about benching someone. He isn't shy about scratching someone. He just simply wants to win. Help him do that more than someone else, and he will make sure you play.



Should Valimaki being playing? Absolutely he should. He is an NHL'er that is developing and is at the NHL threshold level in ability, IMO. He should be getting more reps and becoming an even better player. I just can't make the argument for him playing ahead of anyone right now.


I say this as a fan of Valimaki who I think will still become the best all-round defencemen on this team. The 'all situations' guy, much like Giordano was. I just think he needs to play as one of the best 6 defencemen on this team. Next chance he gets, it will be up to him to prove to Sutter that he deserves to play ahead of someone else.

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I get that you think Valimaki should be playing. And I don't disagree - he should be in Stockton, getting lots of ice-time.

But in an attempt to make your point, or to point blame, you developed a narrative that the Flames have a bunch of mediocre vets blocking the path of young guys. It isn't true. The Flames are deep defensively, and they are trying to win hockey games. You have not shown that they have more mediocre vets than other teams, and I very much doubt that you can.

I don't know how you can look at the three veteran tweeners and Poolman on the farm team (or even the Flames with Zadorov and Stone taking up spots) and not see a bunch of mediocre vets clogging up potential spots for youngins. It's absolutely clear as day.

It also doesn't matter what other teams are doing. The premise was that the Flames aren't giving their any of young, promising dmen prospects the right opportunities, which is true.

Kuznetsov being loaned to the Sea Dogs is another prime example of the mismanagement that's happening to Valimaki and Solovyov right now. Not only is he too good for the CHL, but it also shouldn't have taken a quarter of the season for the Flames organization to realize they need to be playing him.

[Enoch Root]

Kusnetsov is being sent down to a league where he can be successful. And he'll get lots of ice-time.

And Valimaki is being sent to Stockton for the same reason.

All sounds like good player management to me. But if you want to see it as a problem, that's fine.

[SuperMatt18]

Kuznetsov got sent down now because he’s going to be going to Russia’s WJC camp.

Give him 2 months in the AHL, then he will go to the WJC, then he will play the stretch and memorial cup run with St John’s. Seems pretty smart.