Jacob Markstrom (is better than Cam Talbot)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

It's both. I don't understand why it has to be one more than the other.

A bad goalie will drive down the team stats. A good defence will help a goalie's stats. Throw someone like Koskinen into the Flames net and his SV% will be slightly higher than his career average but the Flames W/L record will look a lot worse.

If you really want to harp on Markstrom for something, I see two things dating back to his years with the Canucks:

1. He plays deep in his net (not Mike Smith deep). Which is fine due to his size and positioning, but he does it nearly all the time and doesn't really adjust situationally (i.e. PK, 2 on 1's, puck being cycled, on the rush etc...). There are times when he needs to challenge way more (i.e. the first Hawks goal last night).

2. He's a decent puckhandling goalie and he knows it. So he cuts it way too tight sometimes and causes bad decisions (i.e. the second Hawks goal last night).

Thinking over that play I wonder if Tanev didn't communicate. Markstrom's back was to him and Markstrom typically doesn't make the risky pass.

On the first Hawk's goal, the puck was pretty safely along the boards until it just squirted out into danger. It was a pretty quick play.

If he lets in 2 or less, the Flames win most games.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thinking over that play I wonder if Tanev didn't communicate. Markstrom's back was to him and Markstrom typically doesn't make the risky pass.

On the first Hawk's goal, the puck was pretty safely along the boards until it just squirted out into danger. It was a pretty quick play.

If he lets in 2 or less, the Flames win most games.

Yeah, I'm nitpicking since there seems to be interest in doing so with him.

He had to make a snap decision on the first goal to stay put or challenge further.

You play the puck as much as Markstrom does (which is basically an expectation of most teams at this point) and you're going to mess up eventually.

[CSharp]

LOL, I could've told you'all that Rittich is better than Cam Talbot! Frick, any goalie playing in front of this Sutter team will likely look like a Vezina goalie right now - well, maybe with the exception of Toskinen LOL.

[GranteedEV]

Although in the moment the Puckhandling goal was a massive wtf, I can usually live with those (same with Vladar's ugly giveaway vs NJD) because they're moreso situation accidents than poor positioning / preparation. It bothers me a lot more when a goalie allows a goal from wristers from the circles or beyond than anything else, or worse, something like the gross Nick Suzuki goal where he just needs to be tight to the post and it's a save.

Markstrom has allowed a pair of goals in his last couple of starts but I think he's been outstanding in both especially given time and situation. This is unlike his starts vs Anaheim, Dallas, and Montreal where I thought he let the team down. He plays like has the last couple of games, and he is far more deserving of the Vezina than when he had a bunch of shutouts mixed in with some goat horn nights.

Oh, and by the way, his QS% is up to .600

[dino7c]

Markstrom
.928 2.07 9 Shutouts
28-11-6 record

Talbot
.906 3.00 1 lonely shutout

[CroFlames]

His save percentage would be even better except the Flames give up so few shots they are doing him a disservice.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

And a year later he pretty much untradeable at with the contract he got from the Flames. The Flames could have left him exposed in Seattle expansion draft.

Philipp Grubauer age 29 6 x 5.9

Chris Driedger age 27 3 x 3.5

lol I wonder why you don't post anymore...some of the takes in the early days of this thread


Oilers and Leafs wouldn't mind a little Markstrom right about now

[Kidder]

Was not a fan of Markstrom prior to the Flames landing him.

Hated his diving antics in the WJC gold medal game in 2009. Seemed fitting he ended up in Vancouver and then of course he was the enemy.

Also don’t love watching bigger goalies due to their lack of athleticism.

But he has won me over big time. Great goalie. Great teammate. Always looks like he’s having fun out there. And not satisfied with collecting paycheques from his large deal. The man brings it every night. He’s maintained his competitive streak while outgrowing his immature antics.

Love Markstrom and so happy he is here.

[redmile04]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

And the Oilers are the Oilers.

Talbot’s first year in Edmonton, he put up 2.55/.917 on a team that finished 25th in goals against.

Next year, they finished 8th (after playing Talbot 73 games) then right back to 25th (67 GP for Talbot) because they’re the friggen Oilers.

Cam Talbot is a better goalie than Jacob Markstrom.

Only a biased person would argue otherwise.

This aged poorly.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol I wonder why you don't post anymore...some of the takes in the early days of this thread

Oilers and Leafs wouldn't mind a little Markstrom right about now

I forgot about Ricardodw. Him and Flamesfan05 were the quite the pair before the Flames took off lol.
I would honestly like to see Ricardowds current GRI of the Flames

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Grubauer has a career .919 and last year had a .922 sv%. You think Seattle would have preferred Markstrom’s .910 career and .904 last year? Or even tossed a coin?

I still hold out hope that he rounds in to shape, but at some point don’t you have to think GMs may look at the body of work over 6+ full seasons

Grubauer has an .888 this year...I think Seattle might prefer Markstom

that's just simple me though, didn't put it through all your scientific tests

.928>.888 Last I checked though

[DeluxeMoustache]

So you think Seattle is as good in front of their goalies as Calgary?

Were you not baffled by Francis’s draft choices?

Seattle is a bad team and any goalie suffers

Calgary is a great team paying Gaudreau 6.x and Libdholm 4.x coached by Sutter

Taking these numbers in isolation is too stupid to entertain

[Bingo]

Seattle is actually decent defensively, they rank 8th in xGA60 five on five, but have the worst team save percentage five on five.

Goaltending isn't all of it, and the numbers can only say so much, but no I wouldn't say there are terrible in front of their goaltending by the stats.

Seattle goaltenders have given up 37 more goals than models say they should have at this point. Calgary goaltenders have given up 11 fewer.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So you think Seattle is as good in front of their goalies as Calgary?

Were you not baffled by Francis’s draft choices?

Seattle is a bad team and any goalie suffers

Calgary is a great team paying Gaudreau 6.x and Libdholm 4.x coached by Sutter

Taking these numbers in isolation is too stupid to entertain

You talk about career numbers where Grubauer played for the Caps and Avs and Markstrom played for the Canucks. So your career save % comment is valid but when the script is flipped it is irrelevant?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

It will. Someone has twice posted the stats from last year that show Markstrom’s stats were cratered by a rough middle after his injury and turned back up once Sutter arrived.

He’s a solid starter, people just have a habit of trying to rewrite history to give themselves something extra to complain about when any player shows any sign of weakness.

I’m just going to go ahead and pat myself on the back.

[gvitaly]

Ranking of Goalie tandems

2. (Previous Ranking: 1) Calgary Flames: Jacob Markstrom & Dan Vladar

In his last 15 starts, Markstrom is 12-1-1. His nine shutouts lead all NHL netminders. And the big Swede has taken on a major leadership role within the Flames dressing room. Vladar continues to provide solid support. He’s won three of his last five games.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

So you think Seattle is as good in front of their goalies as Calgary?

Were you not baffled by Francis’s draft choices?

Seattle is a bad team and any goalie suffers

Calgary is a great team paying Gaudreau 6.x and Libdholm 4.x coached by Sutter

Taking these numbers in isolation is too stupid to entertain

Oh the ironing

[GioforPM]

Meanwhile, I'm not sure Talbot is even considered the #1 in Minnie any more.

https://gonepuckwild.com/2022/02/19/...-and-kahkonen/

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Ranking of Goalie tandems

From the article:

3. (Previous Ranking: 7) New York Rangers: Igor Shesterkin & Alexandar Georgiev

The past two games have made Shesterkin look human, but I think he’s been the best goaltender in the NHL this season. His .938 save percentage is Hasek-like. Shesterkin has carried the mail in New York because of his exemplary play, but also out of necessity. Georgiev has struggled mightily and hasn’t won a game since Jan. 8.

I think Shesterkin and Georgiev are awesome and deserve their ranking, but I thought it was hilarious that he says that Shersterkin had a bad week and Georgiev hasn't won in a couple months, so he bumped them up from 7th to 3rd. Okay then.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by redmile04

This aged poorly.

I don’t know that it has.

I actually think I was correct - Talbot is better than Markstrom.

Talbot’s numbers this year are better, and he plays for the Senators.

Talbot’s save % has been at least 10 points better than Markstrom’s 2 of the last 4 years, and the one time Markstrom was 10 points better, Talbot was still .911.

Talbot has had a better save % and GAA in 3 of the last 4 years.

His career numbers are better (barely, but his highs are also much higher, and they’d probably be much better if the Oilers hadn’t abused him).

He has 29 more wins in 10 extra starts.

Oh, and he makes half as much money for half the amount of time.

They should’ve kept Talbot, fight me.