Treliving’s UFA signings……. Starting to look like a strength

[Vinny01]

I would say one of the most common criticisms of our GM is that he makes huge mistakes in free agency and while that has been true in the past I think there is a lot of good news in the last couple years so we can revisit his biggest moves.

For the sake of this I am not really considering the minimum deals that work out (Versteeg) or don’t work out (Leivo) as those boom/bust moves seem to happen with every GM. Also looking strictly at UFA signings so RFA’s, and players that were re-signed are not considered.

2014
Hiller -2 years $4.5M per (good)
This signing is good because Hiller played 52 games that helped this team make the playoffs in year 2 of the rebuild. He completely fell off in gear 2 where the team sunk back down the standings but thanks to the short term this didn’t drag on too long to become a bad deal

Raymond- 3 years $3.15M per (bad)
This seemed to be a signing to help replace the loss of Cammalleri which it didn’t come close to. This deal had to be bought out and just never worked out

Engellend- 3 years $2.917 per (good)
This deal was panned by everyone but it turned into a solid deal. Engellend brought toughness and was key when Gio went down in 2015.

2015
Frolik - 5 years $4.3M per (good)
Frolik was sought after and chose Calgary at 27 years old after the Flames had an unexpected run to the second round. Frolik was a top 6 forward for almost all of this contract and was able to be flipped for a late pick in the last year. It could be argued this cap hit was prohibitive when they tried to sign Tkachuk in the summer of 2019 and lead to the bridge deal.

2016
Brouwer- 4 years $4.5M per (horrible)
This was an absolute brutal deal for the Flames. Zero value was brought and hurt the development of Bennett. This deal had to be bought out midway through but could have easily been bought out sooner. Flames finally out from this buyout next summer

2018
Ryan - 3 years $3.125 per (good)
this was a solid signing where it looked a little rough in the last year with Ryan being waived he still was solid in his time here including a great first year where he Hathaway and Mangiapane formed one of our best lines down the stretch.

Neal - 5 years $5.75M per (horrendous).
Easily the worst Free agent signing in Treliving’s time. Seemed like a decent bet at the time as Neal was coming off back to back finals appearances and 10 straight 20 goal years. He didn’t come with any trade protection, or bonuses and signed for less than the rumored 6x6 he was seeking. He was still so bad in year 1 and was a complete failure. Treliving salvaged this by taking a risk acquiring Lucic but that move worked out well for the team.

2020
Tanev - 4 years $4.5M per (great).
This is looking like Treliving’s best free agent signing. Tanev has been incredible in his role and helped elevate the game on Hanifin in year 1. His amazing play forced the Flames to protect him over Gio which resulted in the Flames gaining the 6.75M in cap on Gio’s last deal. The most important part of this is the opportunity it opened for Kylington who looks great playing in the top 4 with Tanev. This signing helped salvage Kylington which in my opinion helps make it the best of Treliving’s signings.

Markstrom - 6 years $6M per (good)
This deal has a chance to go either way but so far so good for Markstrom who had an uneven year 1 in Calgary. He has 7 shutouts in 52 games as a Flame and is putting up elite numbers this year. Markstrom is filling a huge gap this team had in net for years. I think this could be looked at as a great signing when it is all said and done.

2021
Coleman - 6 years $4.9M per (TBD)
The most recent of Treliving’s big UFA signings is too soon to tell. He has been enjoyable to watch so far and there is a lot to like about this signing but there are reasons for concern so at this point it is too early to make a call one way or the other.


Considering Calgary is not a top UFA destination I do think Treliving has done fairly well in getting the bigger names on the market to consider Calgary. He has taken a lot of heat for this over the years and I think it is somewhat unfair. I think he nailed it with the 2 Canucks in 2020 and luckily was able to salvage his worst move by getting Lucic, 500k in space and a draft pick for Neal.

[CroFlames]

Pretty much agree with the list, but Markstrom graded as "good" is silly.

He's going to win the Vezina. It should be graded "amazing"

I would also add that the Brouwer singing should have been good. There was no reason to think he couldn't be a regular 2nd liner at a reasonable 4.5MM. Its like he lost interest in hockey the minute he got here.

[Erick Estrada]

I think Tanev worked out well even if he declines in the next two seasons but the verdict is still out on Markstrom and Coleman. I like what I have seen from Coleman but he's not getting the usage of a $5 million player and if that continues for six years it's probably not going to look great.

[GranteedEV]

Ryan IMO was the best signing Tre ever made. Even in his last year here, Ryan was way better than he was getting credit for.

I can forgive the Neal signing. Neal was awful and that's on him, but Peters also didn't use Neal with Gaudreau enough, or allow Bennett to centre Neal. Jankowski failed as Neal's centre, and Neal simply was never a guy you want to put on Backlund's line because Backlund is going to be taking touch matchups, which isn't Neal's role. I also think the Lucic trade worked out well for us, if you look at the numbers, since last season Lucic is top 90 in 5v5 production rate - that's all you can ask for considering we have some really good LWs that are going to keep him buried in the bottom six.

I like Tanev, in fact I always have, but what's missing there is that Tre lost Brodie, who I still think is a better player. But I suppose it worked out, since Sutter has begun to use Kylington.

Markstrom is a solid signing, but I guess we'll have to see how healthy he remains for the duration of his contract.

I'm still a bit iffy on the Coleman signing. The AAV is perfect, the term seems a couple years too long, but maybe Coleman can stay useful into his mid-30s (I just wouldn't bank on it).

I also still think the Austin Czarnik and Alan Quine signings were excellent - neither guy worked out but they were the kind of potential home runs you want.

A part of me still believes that if Peters had just tried a Czarnik - Bennett - Neal line, it would have been outstanding. Or Lucic-Bennett-Czarnik the year after, before Czarnik got hurt.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Pretty much agree with the list, but Markstrom graded as "good" is silly.

He's going to win the Vezina. It should be graded "amazing"

I would also add that the Brouwer singing should have been good. There was no reason to think he couldn't be a regular 2nd liner at a reasonable 4.5MM. Its like he lost interest in hockey the minute he got here.

I think the potential for Markstrom to be classified as amazing exists but as of right now he is 27-20-5 in Calgary with a .911 save% and 2.48 GAA. Not $6M man numbers so he needs to continue it here.

I was a fan who did not like the Tanev signing. He seemed to be a declining Dman and it was a bad deal by the Flames. Worked out amazing so far.

Signings I liked right away
1. Markstrom
2. Frolik
3. Neal
4. Hiller
5. Brouwer
6. Ryan

Signings I wasn’t a fan of
1. Tanev
2. Engellend
3. Raymond
4. Coleman

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Pretty much agree with the list, but Markstrom graded as "good" is silly.

He's going to win the Vezina. It should be graded "amazing"

I would also add that the Brouwer singing should have been good. There was no reason to think he couldn't be a regular 2nd liner at a reasonable 4.5MM. Its like he lost interest in hockey the minute he got here.

There was every reason to believe that Brouwer would not be a regular 2nd line player. He was best when he was a bottom 6 player who could contribute on the PP when needed.

And allow me to wait until Markstrom wins the Venzina before I credit him with it.

[neo45]

Fair analysis, I think calling Hiller a good signing is a little generous given he let in everything in his second year (worst season from a flames goalie in a long time)

Also Markstrom is less than 20 percent through his deal and the back half is likely to be worse than the first so I would call his TBD

But it’s true. The Tanev signing was an unforeseen home run and the Neal disaster at least got somewhat mitigated with the trade

[DJones]

Can't blame Treliving for freak medical incidences. Hiller was good until his balance issues came up.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

There was every reason to believe that Brouwer would not be a regular 2nd line player. He was best when he was a bottom 6 player who could contribute on the PP when needed.

And allow me to wait until Markstrom wins the Venzina before I credit him with it.

Why wait? We already know he's going to win 13 Vezinas this year alone!

[Buff]

Originally Posted by DJones

Can't blame Treliving for freak medical incidences. Hiller was good until his balance issues came up.

He had those as a Flame? I recall he had them in Anaheim, I don't remember them re-occurring in Calgary. I am old and forgetful though...

[Winsor_Pilates]

The list looks to be about 50%.
But for the recent ones (Markstrom, Tanev, Coleman), I'm a fan of all 3.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by DJones

Can't blame Treliving for freak medical incidences. Hiller was good until his balance issues came up.

I think Hiller was good until he lost all confidence because the Giordano-Hamilton pair and Russell-Wideman pairs were awful to start the 2015-16 year (Brodie was hurt). Without confidence he was just going through the motions all year (he was baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad)

In another timeline, where Giordano-Brodie and Russell-Hamilton are our D pairs from game 1, maybe Hiller doesn't lose all confidence, and instead has all the confidence, he probably has another good year.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think that is a pretty fair assessment and a reasonably good track record. The fails are obvious and possibly more impactful than the wins, but even those were at least somewhat justifiable at the time. Brouwer was supposed to bring grit and leadership with a few goals. Didn't happen. Neal was a perennial 20 goal scorer, adding some pop to a line up that desperately needed it. Didn't happen.

[1qqaaz]

I must fundamentally disagree with how to grade UFA signings, because I think almost all of them, except maybe Frolik, Hiller, and Tanev, have been poor. And even those three are just okay. Tanev might be good, but we'll have to see for the last two years.

Even Ryan and Engellend, though decent, were slightly overpaid for what they offered.

Coleman is barely earning his salary in year 1 of a 6 year deal that goes to his mid to late 30s. He looks okay now, but the future is frightening at best.

As I've said before on Markstrom, I expected him to do well in years 1 and 2, but I'm very concerned about what happens when he's 34, 35, 36.

Neal, Brouwer and Raymond were disasters. But credit to Treliving for remedying much of the Neal situation by acquiring Lucic.

I think it would have been a lot smarter to pay extra to have the RFAs extended on longer deals. For an example, extending Mangiapane to a long term deal should have been the priority last year. Even if they had to pay a premium to do it.
It's again a priority this year.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

As I've said before on Markstrom, I expected him to do well in years 1 and 2, but I'm very concerned about what happens when he's 34, 35, 36.

I'm less concerned about Markstrom than I am Coleman. Goalies seem to play well into their later 30s, I think because so much of the position is positioning rather than athleticism, and it's more about the team not allowing royal road crossing passes. Though, and I'm digressing here, over-35 goalies don't seem to be able to perform in the Stanley Cup Finals in the cap era, I think because the opponents are really good and force them to use their athleticism.

With Markstrom it's really just health. When he got hurt last year he flatout cost us games.

[ForeverFlameFan]

We don’t get Tkachuk if it wasn’t for Hiller.

So, thanks Hiller?

[Vinny01]

I find it hard to see an argument where “Tanev might be good”

The guy was a top pairing shutdown Dman last year at 4.5M. He has been a stabilizing partner for whoever he has played with. Hanifin and Gio in year 1 and Kylington this year. If it wasn’t for Tanev the Flames likely still have Gio and Kylington may be in Seattle. His impact has helped this organization so much.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

We don’t get Tkachuk if it wasn’t for Hiller.

So, thanks Hiller?

Hiller tried his best for Auston Matthews but came up short

True Team Player

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

We don’t get Tkachuk if it wasn’t for Hiller.

So, thanks Hiller?

Don't forget uncle Benning.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I find it hard to see an argument where “Tanev might be good”

The guy was a top pairing shutdown Dman last year at 4.5M. He has been a stabilizing partner for whoever he has played with. Hanifin and Gio in year 1 and Kylington this year. If it wasn’t for Tanev the Flames likely still have Gio and Kylington may be in Seattle. His impact has helped this organization so much.

Yeah still only a month and change into season two, but through two years he's providing top pairing work on a 4/5 salary.

He is going to have to decline a lot in the rest of his contract to not be worth the dollars given the value he's booked already.

I was iffy on the signing too as I thought he was going to be more a 4 in years one and two and a 6 in years 3 and 4.