[PGT] Dallas over Calgary

[Knightslayer]

That was on the pp. That was a bad play but it is not considered a giveaway by NHL standards or there would be 100 giveaways recorded in a game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I wouldn't trust Sutter's public comments. Monahan is 7th among forwards for ES ice time, which I'd argue is about where Sutter sees him. Not awful, not great.

Sutter likes him because he doesn’t complain about being given that ice time. Of course he’s not getting the minutes of the top line, or of the line charged with shutting down the opposing top line (Backlund’s). Sutter doesn’t hand out minutes like treats - he asks his players to do certain jobs.

Thing is - he’s not going to be a healthy scratch. That’s laughable.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

What is Monahan doing that Sutter would love?

Whatever Sutter asks him to do. He’s said it many times.

[1qqaaz]

Well I don't even think Monahan is anywhere near deserving to be a healthy scratch. He has been disappointing, but he hasn't been that bad.
He doesn't need a message sent to him. He knows what's going on.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Well I don't even think Monahan is anywhere near deserving to be a healthy scratch. He has been disappointing, but he hasn't been that bad.
He doesn't need a message sent to him. He knows what's going on.

This is it. He’s not where he was, he’s where he is, Sutter is asking him to centre a low production unit and grind out forechecking shifts. He uses that line to hem in the opposition late in periods, and as a unit they are pretty good at it. They just don’t use the middle of the ice where goals are scored very well.

Sutter does believe in his 3-2 league philosophy. Which is always going to translate to 1-2 goals from the top line and 1-2 from the rest. Do that, don’t mess up defensively, and he’s happy.

[SuperMatt18]

I still think the Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube line was good.

I think they should actually put Monahan and Dube playing center responsibilities on that line if they want Dube to be a center.

Dube also is poor at faceoffs so having Monahan on that line would help.

Monahan isn't what he was 3 seasons ago, but he's still being wasted playing with Lewis and Richardson.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I still think the Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube line was good.

Edit: realized you were talking about past games.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I still think the Mangiapane-Monahan-Dube line was good.

I think they should actually put Monahan and Dube playing center responsibilities on that line if they want Dube to be a center.

Dube also is poor at faceoffs so having Monahan on that line would help.

Monahan isn't what he was 3 seasons ago, but he's still being wasted playing with Lewis and Richardson.

Lucic is OK on a line with Monahan, because he at least knows where to pass or how to be in scoring position, but with Lewis or Richardson it’s just not as effective. Monahan was on his own three or four times in the offensive zone last night.

With Dube and Mangiapane? I originally thought that would work, but I’m now wondering if their pave is just too quick and Monahan would be behind the play. Though I can’t say I agree with the comment that he looks slower than last season - I think his skating is slightly better.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Lucic is OK on a line with Monahan, because he at least knows where to pass or how to be in scoring position, but with Lewis or Richardson it’s just not as effective. Monahan was on his own three or four times in the offensive zone last night.

With Dube and Mangiapane? I originally thought that would work, but I’m now wondering if their pave is just too quick and Monahan would be behind the play. Though I can’t say I agree with the comment that he looks slower than last season - I think his skating is slightly better.

Regarding the pace of Dube and Mangi. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think Ritchie being out hurt them.
With Ritchie on their line, it gives you 3 guys who all play with a high motor and relentless pace. People can have their opinions on Ritchie, but you can’t deny that he plays hard and fast with a hard forecheck.

With him out, it kind of changed that dynamic of that line.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's why they are a bad match for the Flames who lack gamebreakers on offense.

Once again, I think the Stars skill is to stifle gamebreakers. I'll bring up the example of Colorado in the playoffs again. Colorado is a team with multiple game breakers, and they all disappeared against Dallas. Last year, Dallas had an inordinate amount of games go to OT, in a division with Kane, the Lightning, Florida, and Carolina.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Knightslayer

That was on the pp. That was a bad play but it is not considered a giveaway by NHL standards or there would be 100 giveaways recorded in a game.

Yeah whatever it’s called it wasn’t even said to detract from Backlund. Just highlight the Lucic play I referenced with a marker people may have noticed before. I know it was on the power play; it was the topic.

My entire point was: Lucic on pp2 isn’t a problem.

[---Hatrick---]

Originally Posted by blankall

Once again, I think the Stars skill is to stifle gamebreakers. I'll bring up the example of Colorado in the playoffs again. Colorado is a team with multiple game breakers, and they all disappeared against Dallas. Last year, Dallas had an inordinate amount of games go to OT, in a division with Kane, the Lightning, Florida, and Carolina.

Yup. That’s definitely the blue print to their game, and they do it effectively and also seem to be quite opportunistic

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sutter is asking him to centre a low production unit and grind out forechecking shifts. He uses that line to hem in the opposition late in periods, and as a unit they are pretty good at it.

Monahan, on the season, is at 55.84 On-Ice Shot Attempts/60

Only Trevor Lewis, Nikita Zadorov, and Brad Richardson have had a lower number.

Since shot attempts are the most useful way of describing useful (read: non-turnover) offensive zone possession, I have to disagree with you overall.

For some comparision, Glen Gawdin, who only logged two games and was sent down on waivers, had 59.34 On-Ice Shot Attempts/60 playing with Brett Ritchie and Trevor Lewis as his linemates. And while the team didn't score with him on the ice, it was Gawdin's line that directly contributed to Lindholm's goal against the Ducks.

I'm not pretending the Gawdin sample size is big enough to read too deeply into, but if the goal is "a low production unit and grind out forechecking shifts. He uses that line to hem in the opposition late in periods", then they've been thus far not been able to match what that Gawdin line already gave us.

I do realize there are other factors that need to be considered - road vs home, quality of competition (since it appears Dube's been most sheltered since the shift to centre) but I nonetheless feel the expectations for this line are being set so low, that the line's being praised for things it's not actually doing as consistently. It's starting to feel like a participation award.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ---Hatrick---

Regarding the pace of Dube and Mangi. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly think Ritchie being out hurt them.
With Ritchie on their line, it gives you 3 guys who all play with a high motor and relentless pace. People can have their opinions on Ritchie, but you can’t deny that he plays hard and fast with a hard forecheck.

With him out, it kind of changed that dynamic of that line.

I think Ritchie works with them for short spurts but just lacks the offensive ability to help after he’s done crashing around. That said, as of now, he may the the best option. Pitlick might be able to do the same job, but he’s probably better with Backlund. Same for Coleman. Duehr might work.

I hope Richardson shakes off his rust quickly. I didn’t realize he’s 36. Not sure he’s a real fit.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Monahan, on the season, is at 55.84 On-Ice Shot Attempts/60

Only Trevor Lewis, Nikita Zadorov, and Brad Richardson have had a lower number.

Since shot attempts are the most useful way of describing useful (read: non-turnover) offensive zone possession, I have to disagree with you overall.

For some comparision, Glen Gawdin, who only logged two games and was sent down on waivers, had 59.34 On-Ice Shot Attempts/60 playing with Brett Ritchie and Trevor Lewis as his linemates. And while the team didn't score with him on the ice, it was Gawdin's line that directly contributed to Lindholm's goal against the Ducks.

I'm not pretending the Gawdin sample size is big enough to read too deeply into, but if the goal is "a low production unit and grind out forechecking shifts. He uses that line to hem in the opposition late in periods", then they've been thus far not been able to match what that Gawdin line already gave us.

I do realize there are other factors that need to be considered - road vs home, quality of competition (since it appears Dube's been most sheltered since the shift to centre) but I nonetheless feel the expectations for this line are being set so low, that the line's being praised for things it's not actually doing as consistently. It's starting to feel like a participation award.

I think Sutter knows what he is asking, what he wants, and what he likes. And I think that Monahan’s line is providing it. I suspect Sutter doesn’t care if that line scores any goals as long as they play mostly in the other end. They were not as good last night, mainly because of the shakeup. Lucic is obviously way better than Richardson.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Monahan, on the season, is at 55.84 On-Ice Shot Attempts/60

Only Trevor Lewis, Nikita Zadorov, and Brad Richardson have had a lower number.

Since shot attempts are the most useful way of describing useful (read: non-turnover) offensive zone possession, I have to disagree with you overall.

For some comparision, Glen Gawdin, who only logged two games and was sent down on waivers, had 59.34 On-Ice Shot Attempts/60 playing with Brett Ritchie and Trevor Lewis as his linemates. And while the team didn't score with him on the ice, it was Gawdin's line that directly contributed to Lindholm's goal against the Ducks.

I'm not pretending the Gawdin sample size is big enough to read too deeply into, but if the goal is "a low production unit and grind out forechecking shifts. He uses that line to hem in the opposition late in periods", then they've been thus far not been able to match what that Gawdin line already gave us.

I do realize there are other factors that need to be considered - road vs home, quality of competition (since it appears Dube's been most sheltered since the shift to centre) but I nonetheless feel the expectations for this line are being set so low, that the line's being praised for things it's not actually doing as consistently. It's starting to feel like a participation award.

It's just not a good fit for Monahan's skill set, and don't think it really fits what Lewis/Lucic need to do to be successful as well.

Monahan+Lewis

TOI: 73 Minutes
41.9 Corsi For per 60
41% Corsi
37.6% xGF

Monahan w/o Lewis

TOI: 41 Minutes
80.7 Corsi For per 60
61.8% Corsi For
58.4% xGF

[PeteMoss]

I don't particularly know what Lewis beings besides being a warm body.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I don't particularly know what Lewis beings besides being a warm body.

I liked his first few games.

[Knightslayer]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yeah whatever it’s called it wasn’t even said to detract from Backlund. Just highlight the Lucic play I referenced with a marker people may have noticed before. I know it was on the power play; it was the topic.

My entire point was: Lucic on pp2 isn’t a problem.

I agree. Lucic is probably the best guy on pp2. He does all the screening.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think Sutter knows what he is asking, what he wants, and what he likes. And I think that Monahan’s line is providing it. I suspect Sutter doesn’t care if that line scores any goals as long as they play mostly in the other end. They were not as good last night, mainly because of the shakeup. Lucic is obviously way better than Richardson.

Monahan -6
Lewis -3
Lucic -1
Dube 0
Backlund +1
Pitlick +2
Tkachuk, Mangiapaine, Ritchie +3
Coleman +5
Gaudreau +6
Lindholm +10

I mean that tells me something. I can't imagine Sutter likes it.